Posts by dungbeetle

I had time to tell the lovely Ms Oca about the 'disgusting thing standing in the holy place' and that's what led to the comment number one in that post of mine.

I would love to have asked more questions, but to be honest, my hands were shaking and I was choking up and couldn't really talk anymore. 27 years in and around this organization, and this is what we find out. At the very least I want to let the public know what the JW idea of political neutrality is.

I would love to know why the WT has hid this info from their people if it's okay to do this thing.

The fun part is going to be documenting JW's being DA'd or DF'd for alternative service. I believe that in Greece JW's do not do alternative service. Anybody know anybody in Greece.

My email is not locked hawkaw.

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

501

UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp in

following the link given by kent,.

i have several observation to make:.

(from the link : http://www.un.org/moreinfo/ngolink/brochure.htm).

dungbeetle

Well, not to be left out of anything interesting...

I phoned the United Nations (NGO section) 212-963-7233 at 3:30 pm EST, and was transferred to a lovely helpful lady named Isolda Oca at 212-963-1859.

The gist of the conversation was...

1) It is not unusual for organizations that are in disagreements with the United Nations to become an NGO with them. They sometimes can act as liasons between groups in conflict with one another, governments and the UN and they are welcome to be associated with the UN.

2)If any NGO is taking punitive measures against anyone else who wishes to associate with the United Nations, this is a violation of the agreement between the UN and the NGO.

3) If any NGO is taking punitve measures against someone who wants to do alternative military service (as opposed to serve in an armed forces of a country that is a member of the UN) this is a violation of the agreement between the UN and the NGO.

4)I explicitly stated that jehovah's Witness since at least the early 1940's have taken punitive measures against any of its members when they have tried to do alternative service, even when that alternative service was just doing ministry work or their customary secular employment. These punitive measures include but are not limited to: expulsion from the group; mandatory and enforced shunning of that former member by all the other worldwide members of Jehovah's Witnesses, even of close family members living in the same household.
Aside from having disastrous consequences within the immediate and extended family unit, this also can wreak havoc in a business community as many Jehovah's Witnesses are in business with one another. This can be especially disastrous in a small community whose government is presently engaged in armed conflict with another entitiy.

If this practice can be documented in a letter, and this letter sent with any documentation to the UN, a disassociation proceeding can be iniciated by the Untied Nations. However a good deal of tolerance and leeway is usually shown toward NGO's, and even with proper documentation this procedures takes time and must go through multiple committees.

Which was not really what concerned me...my question was, and it was eloquently answered, that the WT punishing its members for doing alternative service is an explicit violation of their agreement with the UN.

I totally forgot to ask what documentation the Watchtower had given for its application and if it was available for public inspection. Damn!

Never a dull moment...

I have to recheck the address given me specifically to write regarding the Watchtower...will post again later today.

I LOVE this board!!!!

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

5

Up comming assembly

by Tammie in

jw
friends

hi, i have read some of the post in this site, and i find it intresting.

but this is my first time posting here.

i have had come across this question in another webb site.

dungbeetle

update...

this is in other threads, but what the hey...

A special assembly event will be held in various places throughout the United States and Canada. I can't remember if this has any relationship with the annual meeting of the WT or if that turned out to be unconfirmed rumor. I've heard it referred to as a 'speciall supplemental meeting to the annual meeting' (I'm sure someone will clarify)

This is NOT a public event; ONLY certain congregations have been invited; ONLY baptized and unbaptized publishers and their minor children may attend, and they must present an ID badge which they receive from the congregation. The first badges were tan and white, these were recalled and replaced with badges about the color of the 'Good News to Make You Happy" book and about the size of an average business card.

The events were to be from about 10:00 am to about 1:30 pm and no arrangements were made for meals. In some cases I know of, special meetings were to be held for full-time and special pioneers and for the elders. They were to bring their Bibles and songbooks.

More than one of these 'special events' have been cancelled due to resceduling of sporting events. In my locale, there will now be a meeting for elders, their believing wives, and their minor children. The meetings for pioneers are also still on I believe.

I used to have a life before being an ex-jw....<sigh>

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

22

questions for my elders

by sleepy in

jw
friends

here are some questions i have prepeared for my elders if and when they deside to visit me.. anymore you can suggest?.

questions?.

1. gentile times.. a. why do we believe in such a thing as the gentile times?

dungbeetle

I totatlly agree with msil on this one.

1) Jesus specifically stated: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under your feet and turn around and rip you open."-- Matthew 7:6

2) When the elders come, tell them: "I'm tired, and depressed, I don't know what to do, the world is so bad, and on and on and on. The elders will pray with you, encourage you to attend more meetings etc. etc. and go away and hopefully leave you alone for a while. After they leave, screen your calls, don't open the door for just anyone, and actually the best thing to do is move with no forwarding address. In five years they are supposed to throw away your publisher card. You will be free. Think how many people who will talk to in that time.

3) The amount of time spent 'discussing' these issues with diehard JW's (who then will likely turn you in to elders)could be spent talking with 10 other non-JW's who CARE about what you are saying, listen to you, and then will have hard questions for the JW that comes to their door. (JW's have been known to listen to householders, believe it or not!) You have just saved ten people from ever becoming Jehovah's Witnesses and experiencing all that pain and damage as opposed to talking with JW's that you cannot or will not change.

I hope you will never experience the pain and anguish of Disfellowshipping and Shunning. I have, and others on this board can tell you how difficult it is. My advice is to avoid it at all costs, if possible. PLEASE read the section of Ray Franz's book about his experiences with disfellowshipping and shunning, and ask yourself if this is the ONLY WAY to accomplish what you want.

And if it is, all my prayers go with you. Whatever you decide, I wish you the best. Believe me, many of us have been where you are.

Just my 1/2 cent worth

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

18

Where else are you going to go?

by openminded in

jw
friends

can anyone recomend any info or essay asnwering this question?

friends ask me to tell them what other organization is the true religion.

i realize its not even a very good question in the first place.

dungbeetle

You can tell them the same thing I tell JW's when asked that question...

Between 1-1.5 million people that we know of have been estimated to have left the Jehovah's Witnesses over time; 22,000 elders have been estimated to have stepped aside, and 70% and more of jw's children leave the fold, most never to return.

They're all going SOMEWHERE!!!!!

What did Jesus say? He sent them out by two's....that is all. And he said "where two... are gathered together in my name there I will be also." (paraphrased).

By the way, that is what battered women say when they are asked why they stay with their batterer. "Where will I go?"

Just my 1/2 cent worth.

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

4

Special Meeting Canceled

by RealElder in

jw
friends

the special meeting in san diego has been canceled, does anybody know if the other two have also?

dungbeetle

Specifically elders, their believing wives and minor children.

Now what am I going to do with all these badge cards I printed up.....

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

2

'Fess up! Who's messing with the Great Crowd?

by detective in

jw
friends

naughty, naughty.

it's not like some witnesses come to ex-jw boards and start trouble!

from greatcrowd:.

dungbeetle

Of course it is not okay...and it isn't necessary. Anywhere from a fifth to a third of them are over here witnessing to US at any given time. (and counting toward field service hours no doubt). They get just as bored over thee as we would!!!

Step one of the counter-cult and exit counseling is education, both of the public (rather easy) and of cult members (not so easy). A good step toward education is getting our target audience on the internet. If they're on WOL and Great Crowd they're on the internet, and a big chunk of our work is done for us. Nature (curiosity) will do the rest.

That's if we let it and don't chew off our own feet.

Just my 1/2 cents' worth....

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

20

Special Meeting - New Work Announced

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

it is reported that a special meeting has been held of all the district overseers in the usa and the new york city circuit overseers at which it was announced that the field ministry would now be changed until further notice, effective immediately.

for the time being no literature is to be offered or the suggested offer.

the publishers are to advise each householder that due to recent events we are not engaging in our regular work, we are offering comfort where needed from the bible to help cope with the tragedy.

dungbeetle

Yeah even the WT doesn't dare go door-to-door with literature that says..."be a Jehovah's Witness or you and your children and parents and the family dog and cat and goldfish are gonna die! die! die!" They are't that stupid.

From what I can gather, my cong was told to go out with certain brochures and tract (none of which have these die die die slogans)and those two awake articles (my cong is out of them already). We have been told to go only with the bible and share only scriptures that give hope and peace and yada yada yada.

In other words....lie about out 'mission.' Go check the study articles forum all you guys and look at the main study articles of recent watchtowers, and you can see why JW's are being told to put all the literature away.

I especially love the fact that the rank and file JW's have already paid for their literature up front and in good faith and have now been told they can't PLACE IT!!!!

RUN WATCHTOWER RUN. It isn't going to work this time.

dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

60

My JW Mothers' Words Of "Love"

by Ranchette in

jw
friends

well, i just received a letter from my mom and i dont know how to describe my feelings at this time.

i thought id share parts of it with you and see what yall think.

i will delete names and add my own words in parenthesis to describe whom shes talking about.. after a few lines of small talk she says this..........i do want to tell you, since (you and your husband) have rejected the truth, i am so glad (your son) is not old enough to join or be drafted into the military.

dungbeetle

someting that always gets to JW's is when you tell them how much like other religions they are. I have a Jewish mother-in-law who sounds just like your mother Ranchette (and others). My one friend is Italian Catholic, my other friend is Irish atheist, my daughter in law was raised a Baptist...and they ALL have mothers like yours.

These women (and their male counterparts)are a dime a dozen as far as this mindset and behavior go. They exist in EVERY walk of life, all cultures, religions, countries,races...you name it. It doesn't help the pain go away to know this....but boy does it make moms stop in their tracks when they know they are acting just like....(pick a religion)))

Since you mention a husband and son, it sounds like your mother can count the time towards field service when she writes these letter. In that case you can count on it never ending.

I wasn't very helpful was I ...sorry. How about this...

(((((((((((((Ranchette)))))))))))