"So before phasing out the heavenly "great multitude" class, Rutherford claimed that those who belong to that class are "appointed to die". No wonder people stopped taking the emblems and adopted an earthly hope as a Jonadab. Then a year later, after a Memorial had passed, Rutherford switched tables and claimed that the secondary spiritual class "appointed to die" does not exist....the Jonadabs are the "great multitude". And thus in a reversal, Rutherford wrote that "the great multitude will also survive Armageddon, because God’s promise to those who seek meekness and righteousness is that they may be hid in that time" (15 August 1935 Watchtower, p. 247)."
Wow -- I certainly did not know about THIS switch. Thanks Leo, NanaR
Posts by NanaR
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21How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
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How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
AnnOMaly,
Thank you for the quotes. I really don't know whether my grandmother considered herself of the "elect", I do know that she told me that she partook of the emblems at the Memorial for a while before deciding that she actually had an earthly calling.
So if anybody was taking the emblems on trust but felt a little 'unworthy' or that they were not quite doing their best, they would automatically default to the new all-in-one earth-bound Jonadab/Great Company class and stop partaking.
By 1935, she had 8 children and was raising them all by herself in rural Arkansas. My grandfather had left to find work and no one heard from him for years (she later took him back and had 2 more children). I don't imagine that she had a lot of time for meetings and preaching. Perhaps that is why she felt "unworthy".
BTW, my grandfather purportedly had a whole other family while he was "gone". My mother's only brother never became a
Witness; he pursued a career in the Air Force. While stationed in Virginia, he found his father's name in the phone book and went to the house. Grandpa was living with a redheaded lady and small children. My uncle never spoke to his father again.Also, in later years, my grandfather was accused of molesting several of his granddaughters (not including me), but no action was ever taken. My aunt told me about my grandfather's propensities when she saw him sitting way too close to me at a circuit assembly. So I certainly have no problem believing the JW congregations have hidden child molestors.
He was a JW in good standing when he died. Apparently, his Depression-day exploits predated disfellowshiping. But as far as I know, he NEVER admitted living with the woman in Virginia or molesting his granddaughters.
Back to my original thought, I just get so angry when I think of how my entire family's history has been manipulated by some old men claiming to represent God.
Thank you very much for your reply.
NanaR
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21
How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
Leolaia,
Thank you for your very comprehensive answer. The two heavenly classes are even harder for me to understand than the current thinking. Probably that was so for many believers at that time as well.
the "Jonadab" teaching introduced in 1931 prevented many new members from joining the ranks of the secondary spiritual class, which is where neophytes would have gone previously.
I don't believe my grandmother would have been a "new member", as I am pretty sure she was baptized before 1918 (she was born in the 1890s, not sure which year, and her father and grandfather were both Bible Students when she was born).
I need to research the old books more thoroughly. I have been downloading copies lately.
Thank you so much,
NanaR
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How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
The "Paradise Earth" hope may have seemed more attainable than "Heaven"
Very true, Rockhound.
NanaR
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21
How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
"What would your family and friends think if you started going around saying "I am of the heavenly class?""
LOL Anitar, they would say I'm an apostate...
Might be the first thing they would be right about *hah*
NanaR -
21
How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
"The first sister who had stood up claiming to be of the anointed said, "Why didn't you stand up with the Great Multitude group?" The second sister replied: "I don't know which group I am." The first sister told her: "If you don't know if you're of the anointed, then you're part of the Great Multitude." So, the second sister stopped partaking at the Memorial"
This explanation sounds vaguely familiar -- perhaps this was what happened with my grandmother.
All I know is -- if my grandmother wasn't "worthy" to go to heaven, then nobody is....
I keep trying to figure out how I, as a reasonably intelligent person, could have swallowed all the conflicting doctrines and timetables and general rubbish virtually whole and without question for so long. It boggles the mind to even think about.
Thanks cabasilis, NanaR -
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Jehovah`s Witness Memory Loss.....BrainWashed or Selective Memory
by OUTLAW inhow many times have we meet jehovah`s witness`s that could`t remember what they preached years earlyer?..they will down right deny it,until you stick thier own literature under thier nose..some say it`s because of brainwashing,some say it`s selective memory....what causes memory loss in jehovah`s witness`s?.....outlaw
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NanaR
Outlaw,
It depends on how many years worth of "new light" you're trying to keep track of. I remember things that I learned early on, and I remember that they changed, but I sometimes have trouble remembering WHEN they changed. (Having the CD now to refer to is helpful on that).
If you read through literature in the months or even a year just prior to a major "new light" revelation, you will see that they progressively "soften up" the explanation of the "old light" to make the "new light" more acceptable when it comes.
Also, when they do a flip one way and then later flip back, it isn't too difficult to see how a person might "forget" the switch.
Is brainwashing involved? I believe the way the WTS chooses to present material is at best intellectually dishonest and at worst brainwashing. But I haven't come to a definite conclusion.
Individual witnesses for the most part are (I believe) just trying to keep up with "current truth". As someone who rode the merry-go-round for over 40 years, I can say it was a constant juggling act -- trying to remember what was "currently" TRUE. And then when you have people around you who haven't been around as long, you have nobody to confirm whether or not something you "remember" was actually the case or just your scrambled memory.
They believe it is their responsibility to leave the former understanding and embrace the current one. So while I don't actually believe they totally "forget" what they once taught, they have no incentive to actively remember it either.
Just my 2 cents,
NanaR
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How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
Then Rutherford created the cut-off point for those going to heaven, and that was 1935.
Anitar,
Thanks for your response. Yes, I know about the 1935 "revelation" -- but my grandmother was "of the annointed" long before that. She was baptized sometime before my mother was born in 1918. So by 1935, she would have been partaking for almost 20 years. That's a long time.
So I can't figure out how she came to the conclusion that she wasn't REALLY "of the anointed". And since she died back in the 1970s, I can't ask her.
I was hoping somebody here knew the reasoning that was brought to bear on folks at the time to convince them that they weren't really annointed.
NanaR
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21
How did Rutherford do it?
by NanaR inback at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.
i have wondered about this for years.
my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.
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NanaR
Back at the time that Rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the Great Multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to STOP partaking of the emblems?
I have wondered about this for YEARS. My grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century. She was a 3rd generation Bible Student. She, of course, believed herself to be of the annointed and partook of the emblems before the "new light". She was also the kindest, most compassionate, most "Christian" person I have ever known. I asked her once about why she stopped partaking, and all she said was, "I found out that I was not really of the annointed." That always bothered me...
So does anybody know just HOW the old Judge managed to convince people that they weren't going to heaven after all?
NanaR
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Regrets for becoming a JW
by sinis inwell, i have been thinking lately how f@cked the jw have left me, in a sense, though i was raised in the "truth".
first off, my grandfather was df'd when i was 12, will never forget as it was the first night i gave a talk on the school.
he was df'd for chewing tabacco.
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NanaR
sinis,
I don't feel as though I "became" a JW -- I never really had any choice. I was a "cradle JW" (borrowing an expression from the Catholic Church -- cradle Catholic -- which is what my husband was before he "became" a JW).
I am at the point in my life where looking back does not hold much interest. I excelled in school, I turned down multiple scholarship opportunities, I took a part-time job and pioneered. But then I met my husband -- at an international convention in Puerto Rico -- so the point could be made that had I not been born a JW and he not been "converted", we would have never met. As he is my best friend and the love of my life (we married in 1974 and are still happily married almost 33 years later), I certainly can't regret THAT part of my JW life.
I do wish that my eyes had been opened to the "truth about the troof" sooner, so that my children would have had more "normal" lives. None of my children were ever baptized, and it was a visit from 3 elders who interrogated my youngest daughter and pronounced her "not a publisher" that started my drift toward "the back door". But had I stopped going in service, etc., sooner, perhaps my oldest daughter would not been the confused and mixed up mess that she is now.
So I guess I do have regrets, but noone can change the past. Only the future is within our power to shape -- and I am doing that the best way I know how.
Best wishes,
NanaR