over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
Again AIW, start your own thread. This is tantamount to busting in on the middle of a memorial service, quoting Ayn Rand, and loudly asking for information about him.
There have been 20 threads started on Ray Franz in the last 2 days. Read them, and buy the book Crisis of Conscience. This isn't the place for your comments, with all respect.
over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
The tribute is beautiful. I love it.
I agree MrsJones5
over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
....and if you bothered to read the first post, and the spirit of the posts that followed, you can see where this thread is.
Death is a serious thing. Lets show some respect. You are more then welcome to start your own thread on Ayn Rand if you want.
over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
Yeah, you can ask. But do so about another thread. This thread is about Ray Franz, a name you failed to mention in your last post. Ayn Rand got two mentions.
over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
Thanks for sharing AIW. That will be all from you on this thread.
over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
It's nice that even admitted Jehovah's Witnesses will miss Ray Franz.
since it was learned that ray franz went to the hospital and then passed away, most threads have in my opinion, correctly tried to give some honor and respect to a courageous, honest, and principled man.. some borderline trolls, who know many former jw's are easily upset (and they know this.
i know this...) try to take advantage by hitting on a hot button.
in this case, its to call you a follower of ray franz.. we all know that isn't true.. but i think that a legitimate discussion on this is in order.
Since it was learned that Ray Franz went to the hospital and then passed away, most threads have in my opinion, correctly tried to give some honor and respect to a courageous, honest, and principled man.
Some borderline trolls, who know many former JW's are easily upset (and they know this. I know this...) try to take advantage by hitting on a hot button. In this case, its to call you a follower of Ray Franz.
We all know that isn't true.
But I think that a legitimate discussion on this is in order. Is there any truth to that? Why or why not?
What were the real ramifications for you as an individual and for the JW organization (esp the leadership) due to Franz leaving and writing his two books?
One more thing: I have no problem if you are a person who genuinely feels that former JW's somehow either follow him or pay "too much respect." (don't know how you can give a good man too much respect, but whatever) And if you feel the threads on this or other forums upset you, say so.
But have some class. Do so respectfully. And better yet, rather then just say you are upset, why don't you say why? How you think things should be.
I won't tolerate on this thread anyone who tries to be a classless hack. If you have something to say, bring it. If you are here to insult grateful people, go somewhere else in your parents basement and watch TV.
Anyway, feel free to discuss if you want. I will start by saying that overall, I have felt that the expressions have been heartfelt and were directed at a very unique, honest, good man. I don't sense worshipful adoration, and I certainly have never seen evidence at all that Ray Franz led a group ever.
"i know it took a long time, but i finally made the truth my own.".
.
TOP 10 REASONS WHY YOU WEREN'T AT THE KH (with apologies to David Letterman)
"HBO finally did a documentary on "Debbie Does Dallas", which was right after "True Blood". Must see TV!"
"I've had the Knowledge book crammed up my @$$, which makes it very hard to sit down at a KH."
"BINGO!"
"Last night we partied like its 1975."
"We found some scrach off lottery tickets and won. So we went to the Casino afterward."
"We were trying to help apostates on JWN learn the error of their ways by cutting and pasting old WT articles. Hard to tell if its current light or not."
"We used to have key parties after our bookstudy, and we are stumbled that we can't do that anymore."
"We learned that when you multiply the 7 Gentile Times and then divide by 2,520, and count backwards from 1914, the answer is 69."
"My wife was playing my skin flute."
"Colonel Angus came by to pay my wife a vist. She likes him."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_god_delusion.
the god delusion is a 2006 bestselling non-fiction book by british biologist richard dawkins, professorial fellow of new college, oxford, and inaugural holder of the charles simonyi chair for the public understanding of science at the university of oxford.. .
in the god delusion, dawkins contends that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist and that belief in a personal god qualifies as a delusion, which he defines as a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence.
Use of the movie "Religilous" would also indicate a person who isn't a JW.
over at freeminds we didn't want this day to pass without some recognition of the life and death of ray franz.
in view of his stated wishes not to have a memorial or service we hoped for something that he would have liked for all of us to take a moment over.. .
we owe a note of thanks to v for his graphics work and atjeff for the obituary writing - i know neither of them need mentioned by me.. .
Having recently lost my mom, it is amazing how important it is that we remember and honor a person and their life when they pass. It truly isn't in the JW culture to think of it in those terms, but it is important.
Ray Franz lived an important life. Rarely does the man who wants to be great become great. Ray simply did what all great men do, he lived a life of honesty and integrity and was true to (the real) truth.
The tributes in total that have been payed to him have been paid, not because of what he started for himself, but because of what he started for others.
If a man's greatness can be told in the lives that he influences and touches, then surely, there will never be another Raymond Franz. May we all strive to imitate the example he set.
