Sign me up. This one calls for a dirty martini....
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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64
COME TO MY PARTY!!!!
by palmtree67 in.
it's a party for intolerant and/or hateful bigots!!!.
oh, yeah, and alice is pouting in the corner.. .
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125
Religion and Cults
by alice.in.wonderland ini've heard certain people here refer to jehovah's witnesses as a mind-control cult, high-control cult; theories perpetrated for how long i don't know, but at least since the days of ray franz.
i had spent nearly forty years as a full time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure.
the last fifteen years i had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide governing body of jehovah's witnesses.
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125
Religion and Cults
by alice.in.wonderland ini've heard certain people here refer to jehovah's witnesses as a mind-control cult, high-control cult; theories perpetrated for how long i don't know, but at least since the days of ray franz.
i had spent nearly forty years as a full time representative, serving at every level of the organizational structure.
the last fifteen years i had spent at the international headquarters, and the final nine of those as a member of the worldwide governing body of jehovah's witnesses.
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AllTimeJeff
Did someone say cults?
A cult film (also known as a cult movie/picture or a cult classic) is a film that has acquired a highly devoted but specific group of fans. [ 1 ] Often, cult movies have failed to achieve fame outside of the small fanbases; however, there have been exceptions that have managed to gain fame among mainstream audiences. Many cult movies have gone on to transcend their original cult status and have become recognized as classics; others are of the "so bad it's good" variety and are destined to remain in obscurity. Cult films often become the source of a thriving, obsessive, and elaborate subculture of fandom, hence the analogy to cults. However, not every film with a rabid fanbase is necessarily a cult film. Usually, cult films have limited but very special, noted appeal. Cult films are often known to be eccentric and do not follow traditional standards of mainstream cinema and usually explore topics not considered in any way mainstream—yet there are examples that are relatively normal. They are often considered controversial because they step outside standard narrative and technical conventions known. [ 2 ]
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The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz
by AllTimeJeff inthe significance of raymond franz.
in the light of the passing of raymond franz this week, it is clear from the reaction that many were affected by the deeds of this man.
while he was called gentle by those who knew him (for the record, i never got to meet him personally) his reputation preceded him both in the ex jehovah's witness community, and still to this day at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses.. while his writings were indeed fair and reasonable, (i challenge anyone to read his books and find bitterness associated with him toward his former peers) i think it would be a mistake to remember ray franz as somewhat of a gentle, doting old man.
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110
Lakers or Celtics?
by minimus init's tied, 1 to 1. i'm with the green team over lala boys.
my prediction it'll be celtics in best out of 7..
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41
The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz
by AllTimeJeff inthe significance of raymond franz.
in the light of the passing of raymond franz this week, it is clear from the reaction that many were affected by the deeds of this man.
while he was called gentle by those who knew him (for the record, i never got to meet him personally) his reputation preceded him both in the ex jehovah's witness community, and still to this day at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses.. while his writings were indeed fair and reasonable, (i challenge anyone to read his books and find bitterness associated with him toward his former peers) i think it would be a mistake to remember ray franz as somewhat of a gentle, doting old man.
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AllTimeJeff
I just wanted to comment on believingxjw and others who pointed out that Ray Franz was forced to resign, implying that he did not do so over principle.
My blog, as well as my impressions of CoC and the events described, are totally my own, independent of Randy Watters or anyone associated at Freeminds.
Clearly, Ray himself was at a crossroads, conflicted as to trying to see if effective change could be done from within. What stuck out to me as I read CoC was that Ray was planning on leaving, he took a leave of absence to make arrangements do so, and I interpret that to mean that his intentions were to resign his position on the Governing Body over principle.
The fact is that he did resign, even though it came quicker then he had planned.
It isn't my intention to argue over other people's impressions. The fact that Al Schroeder and Lloyd Barry among others had Ray Franz in the crosshairs since at least 1979 and effectively got him while he wasn't there, building a case before Franz knew what hit him doesn't change in my mind what he was preparing to do.
Anyone can read CoC and make up their own minds about that. I regret that my impressions of CoC have been interpreted by some as they have. In the end, as others have noted, it doesn't matter nor does it change the good work that Franz did, which is the most important thing.
For those who feel otherwise, I extend my apologies.
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The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz
by AllTimeJeff inthe significance of raymond franz.
in the light of the passing of raymond franz this week, it is clear from the reaction that many were affected by the deeds of this man.
while he was called gentle by those who knew him (for the record, i never got to meet him personally) his reputation preceded him both in the ex jehovah's witness community, and still to this day at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses.. while his writings were indeed fair and reasonable, (i challenge anyone to read his books and find bitterness associated with him toward his former peers) i think it would be a mistake to remember ray franz as somewhat of a gentle, doting old man.
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The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz
by AllTimeJeff inthe significance of raymond franz.
in the light of the passing of raymond franz this week, it is clear from the reaction that many were affected by the deeds of this man.
while he was called gentle by those who knew him (for the record, i never got to meet him personally) his reputation preceded him both in the ex jehovah's witness community, and still to this day at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses.. while his writings were indeed fair and reasonable, (i challenge anyone to read his books and find bitterness associated with him toward his former peers) i think it would be a mistake to remember ray franz as somewhat of a gentle, doting old man.
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AllTimeJeff
Lets just clarify a couple of things.
Is anyone denying that Ray Franz resigned?
Is anyone denying that Ray Franz had already made up his mind to leave and was in fact, getting ready to do just that while the GB tried to disfellowship him in a witch hunt?
Was his leaving the Governing Body done over principle?
Discuss.
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The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz
by AllTimeJeff inthe significance of raymond franz.
in the light of the passing of raymond franz this week, it is clear from the reaction that many were affected by the deeds of this man.
while he was called gentle by those who knew him (for the record, i never got to meet him personally) his reputation preceded him both in the ex jehovah's witness community, and still to this day at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses.. while his writings were indeed fair and reasonable, (i challenge anyone to read his books and find bitterness associated with him toward his former peers) i think it would be a mistake to remember ray franz as somewhat of a gentle, doting old man.
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AllTimeJeff
believingxjw
Huh? I allowed you your say and gave you mine. No harm, no foul, no shepherding calls, judicial committees, or announcements from the platform. You haven't changed anything, but you have had your say. Are you good with that?
You also need to adjust your telemetry for sarcasm.
Other then that, you hit it right on the head again. Keep up the good work!
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The Significance of Raymond Victor Franz
by AllTimeJeff inthe significance of raymond franz.
in the light of the passing of raymond franz this week, it is clear from the reaction that many were affected by the deeds of this man.
while he was called gentle by those who knew him (for the record, i never got to meet him personally) his reputation preceded him both in the ex jehovah's witness community, and still to this day at the world headquarters of jehovah's witnesses.. while his writings were indeed fair and reasonable, (i challenge anyone to read his books and find bitterness associated with him toward his former peers) i think it would be a mistake to remember ray franz as somewhat of a gentle, doting old man.
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AllTimeJeff
First of all, he was asked to resign. Secondly, earlier in the book, and as verified by those around him back then, Ray had made it known that he was looking to leave. As you may recall, he was in Alabama when he was called back to the GB witch hunt.
I welcome your attempted technicality. However, he was preparing to leave on his terms, over the principles that the book Crisis of Conscience was written over.
The fact that he was forced to resign doesn't change that 1) He did resign and 2) It was over principle.
Why do you think he took a leave of absence to Alabama and was called back? Because he was getting ready to resign, over principle. He was called back due to the witch hunt.
And to be clear, I didn't say he resigned as a JW, but as a member of the GB.
While this is an internet forum, and thus you can say what you feel, which I respect your right to do, I have to tell you in the same spirit that I don't appreciate what I perceive as an attempt to discredit what I wrote, which was 100% true and honest. In my opinion, you were/are looking to manufacture a controversy where none exists.
Other then that, you hit it right on the head.