Posts by AllTimeJeff

someone is pressing me about blood fractions on an unrelated thread, so i just moved the topic to an appropriate location.. "the point for me in every thread you touch is your sickening dishonesty and nauseating apologies for the old men in brooklyn who tell you what to do.. they have told you that products made from blood don't use blood, and you are so corrupt and gullible you just accept it.".

i accept any bible-based religion that adheres to the bible as its authority.. the purpose of this magazine, the watchtower, is to honor jehovah god, the supreme ruler of the universe.

just as watchtowers in ancient times enabled a person to observe developments from afar, so this magazine shows us the significance of world events in the light of bible prophecies.

AllTimeJeff

"The issue is respect for life."

Bravo Palmtree. That is it in a nutshell.

Blood and blood medicine saves lives. If JW's can have organ transplants and blood fractions, but not whole blood, that is just absolutely contradictory and nuts.

In the end though, as I will repeat, it doesn't matter what any JW will say to defend the indefensible. What matters is the saving of life whenever it can be done.

243

Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

by Quillsky in

jw
friends

my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

it is a belief in no belief..

AllTimeJeff

To be an atheist one has to believe that the universe is either eternal or came from nothing. There is no evidence for either; therefore, atheism is a belief.

Actually, that isn't true. Sorry.

Athiests with varying ideas have formed conclusions based on available facts, including how much God has had to say in our 20th century for example. Such data leads to conclusions, but those conclusions (i.e. there is no god as theists describe it) is much different then saying all atheists have beliefs and believe the same thing. (i.e. I am an atheist, and as such, must defend the atheists code of conduct, and all believe the same thing)

Labels, they suck. So do attempts to change the conversation on why religion and god have disappointed by demonizing those that point out the obvious.

I promise you, any atheist would be a believer in a second if God simply would show up. Who wouldn't, right?

65

BOE LTR (PDF) Brazen Conduct !!!

by yknot in

i apologize to those in the vincinity of my spad's ladies bathroom....... yes!

oh my gaud!

give it to me baby!

AllTimeJeff

Just a thought on the whole "brazen better reflects the original greek term translated "loose conduct" then....' what, loose conduct?

Brazen was always a code word for elders meaning "Yeah, they meant it. It wasn't weakness, it was a heart condition."

How interesting that they want to use greek terms and translations, something that they frankly suck at, and add their own admitted spin word to it.

"Brazen better reflects.... chosen by the Governing Body."

There it is in a nutshell. They admit to their own spin.

"Loose conduct" is the Governing Body's favorite offense. It can mean anything. They can make it anything. But loose isn't as evil, and its hard to get elder buy in. "Brazen"? Thats a word that can fire up some elders to disfellowship over any kind of crap.

It's all greek to me. But lets not forget, this cult/religion is a mere invention, nothing more. It is no wonder that they will invent new stuff to keep themselves going.

They just make crap up, thats all. This is more of the same.

243

Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

by Quillsky in

jw
friends

my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

it is a belief in no belief..

AllTimeJeff

For those who need labels to view the world, then this matters.

I always find it funny that theists want to make it seem that atheism is a belief system of sorts, almost like a religion. Ergo, they are in no position to critcize organized religion.

That's why the arguement is waged.

Personally, I think atheists are fine and don't practice a religion, or have an organized belief system. They are free to believe whatever they want, since they don't believe in god.

Agnostics are different.

Labels suck. :)

157

Glenn Beck

by will_the_apostate in

do j dubs like glenn beck?

they seem like peas in a pod to me.

AllTimeJeff

People who take Beckkk too seriously deserve exactly how they feel. I realize that any kind of sustained noise is irritating. Typically, I try to remove myself from the noise.

It appears that he talked a lot about god. Not surprising. Since becoming a Mormon, he has "cleaned up his life." Which is good for him. I congratulate him on that.

He is allowed to say that America needs to "get back to god." I am allowed to say that I don't think America is any less god fearing, just a lot more accepting of those who disagree with organized religion.

I disagree with what the man says. To me, he is an idiot. An idiot with a lot to say deserves less of an audience. Why debate about what he says. Like it matters? His schtick is noise. He makes money the more noise he makes. Thus, expect more noise from Glen Beckkk.

Here is how I handled it after watching the news. I wrote a little op piece on this board, and am now watching baseball. Beckkk will always feel the way he does. I ain't changing that. And no one is changing how I feel on matters either. Bummer.

13

E plurubus unum

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i have been meaning to talk about this for some time.

whatever arguements this causes is up to you.. glen beck, who scheduled his little "return to god" fair with exquisite good taste and timing, said that his rally had nothing to do with politics.

i have no problem with him organizing whatever he wants.

AllTimeJeff

Jeff -- What percentage of voters, in your opinion, disagree with your thoughts, here? Just curious.

Interesting question. Would many people who are tea party members or follow Beck think that the founding fathers meant for this to be a Christian nation? If so, would they care to explain why the founding fathers didn't make it so?

Percentage wise, I dont' think it is any more then a vocal minority. It is impossible to say. I do know that Obama and the Dems won the last election, and it didn't have a whole helluva lot to do with Christianity. It was the economy then, now, and forever.

...which is why I think the whole premise doesn't matter a great deal in the long run.

Hey Dinah. Doing pretty good. Hope all is well with you! :)

98

Blood Fractions

by alice.in.wonderland in

someone is pressing me about blood fractions on an unrelated thread, so i just moved the topic to an appropriate location.. "the point for me in every thread you touch is your sickening dishonesty and nauseating apologies for the old men in brooklyn who tell you what to do.. they have told you that products made from blood don't use blood, and you are so corrupt and gullible you just accept it.".

i accept any bible-based religion that adheres to the bible as its authority.. the purpose of this magazine, the watchtower, is to honor jehovah god, the supreme ruler of the universe.

just as watchtowers in ancient times enabled a person to observe developments from afar, so this magazine shows us the significance of world events in the light of bible prophecies.

AllTimeJeff

I have such a different perspective right now. There are some things that matter, and some things that don't.

What matters on this whole subject, regardless of how many WT articles you quote, or how long a post you want to write as an apologist, is it simply doesn't matter why the leadership of JW's try to defend and establish and justify their stand on blood.

What matters is that people by the tens of thousands have died or have suffered irrepairable harm. Their stand is ignorant and harmful.

It doesn't matter why JW's believe the way they do on this. It only matters that they are wrong.

What matters is that thanks to the internet, more JW's then ever have the information available to access. More and more former JW's have shared many good thoughts, not a few of which reside on this board.

AIW, it simply doesn't matter. Life is important now. The use of blood as medicine saves lives now. That's what matters. Anything else that the leadership of JW's put out there, or internet JW apologists like AIW says, doesn't matter. It's really that simple.

13

E plurubus unum

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i have been meaning to talk about this for some time.

whatever arguements this causes is up to you.. glen beck, who scheduled his little "return to god" fair with exquisite good taste and timing, said that his rally had nothing to do with politics.

i have no problem with him organizing whatever he wants.

AllTimeJeff

I have been meaning to talk about this for some time. Whatever arguements this causes is up to you.

Glen Beck, who scheduled his little "return to God" fair with exquisite good taste and timing, said that his rally had nothing to do with politics. I have no problem with him organizing whatever he wants. He has a platform, and people with platforms are going to use them. But please don't tell me its got nothing to do with politics. Whenever you hear that phrase, it means it has EVERYTHING to do with politics.

The call was, America is a Christian nation, and the many statements of our founding fathers were used, and continue to be used, to demonstrate how much the liberalization of America takes us further away from "us" being a Christian nation. Christian voters need to vote Christians into office, so Christian laws can be made for Christian values befitting a Christian nation. Liberalization needs to be stopped.....

To which I say, "Duh!" Of course, and if you want to look at history, esp the 20th century, the USA (including all western european democracies) have become more secular, and less religious.

If the Beck crowd is to be believed, this flies in the face of what our founding fathers wanted for America. Ergo, we need to go back to "the way we were", back to god, become a religious nation once again.

There is so much attached to this in recent controversies, gay marriage and gay rights, mosques around ground zero, the baseless rumors that our current president is a Muslim who wants to tear apart this country.....

And here is the thing, I will be the first to tell you that most of the founding fathers were indeed Christian. (Thomas Jefferson was a deist). Most did believe in god, Jesus, and valued the role of their faith in their lives.

So what does this prove? Try this one on for size. In spite of their very strong beliefs, our founding fathers severely limited what was put into law, regarding religion.

Think about it. As private citizens, they wrote tons of material about how good religion was.

But they kept it out of the Consitiution.

They kept it out of the Bill of Rights.

Sure, you were free to express your religion. Thus, Glen Beck, you are free to say all you want that god is great, and encourage all who want to to follow....

You are also just as free to ignore that, and just as free to point out that the exclusion of any language making America a Christian nation in the law was purposeful and by design.

Are you going to sit there and argue that the founding fathers FORGOT to make it a law that this is a Christian nation? Oops!

No. Because there was one principle that the founding fathers held higher then Christianity. Freedom

The experiment was freedom. That a people free would be able to chart their own course individually, free of government intrusion in any respect. The founding fathers simply weren't interested in imposing their personal beliefs on others. They fled that, fled the Church of England, fled a state sponsered religion.

Please tell me where the evidence is that our founding fathers wanted the government to be Christian. They didn't. They had every opportunity to do so many times, and at the end of it all, said nothing. Because to do otherwise would make America, would make you, less free.

They wanted to be free, and wanted others to be free to not be religious if that made you more free to be yourself. It was that freedom that trumped any idea about a Christian nation. More important then being Christian, then being religious, was being free.

The rhetoric of the religious right, is most certainly political.

You are free to be religious.

Just don't take other peoples freedom away to not be religious, and to have their own beliefs and rituals, practiced in the privacy of their own homes. If you have freedoms, they aren't because they are Christian rights. They are American rights. To deny the rights "we" have from minorities because they are "Christian" means that being Christian is more important to some then being free. It means e pluribus unum is a joke.

Freedom is more important then a nation turning back to god.

I promise you, whatever I do regarding god, I will do in my own home, private, and not at the Beck and call of any movement that says I have to be Christian, because that is "what we are".

I am free to be "what I am", and don't anyone dare take that away from me.

E pluribus unum.