AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

• 
  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  AllTimeJeff

  bindub, if only you had appeared on page 1 of this thread.... :)
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  AllTimeJeff

  Essan, you have been more concise in your context, and I thank you for that. I would say to you and quillsky that a discussion of what atheism means is impossible to have without the overarching drama behind why two sides of the coin exist (atheism v theism), that is to say, does god exist, and is he worthy of the worship his adherents insist on?

  Anyway, a stimulating (if not overly enlightening) discussion.
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  and, btw, I think that most JW's, and even those first leaving, are a poor reason not to state a position. Most JW's are taught how to twist anything. They are all about winning arguments, not being right, or being honest. So it doesn't matter their perception until they are ready to be honest with themselves.

  When an honest person calls you on something, that is something to be worried about. If a JW wants to call you a bullshitter, I would take that as a great compliment. :)
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Fair enough Essan, and my apologies for being so forceful. May I make a comment, an opinion offered in the utmost of sincerity, that when one argues for or against something, context is important. If you will allow me, context has been lacking in your statements.

  Otherwise, your points are duly noted. :) I still have no idea what your point is, other then I am sure that deep down, they are there.
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Essan, you strike me as a person who takes pride in stirring the pot. That's a lot of negative energy you have to distribute.

  I don't mean that to be overly personal, but I have read and reread your posts, and what I find my self wondering right now is, why would you take the positions you have in this discussion if you weren't defending "god" or theism?

  I suppose it doesn't matter. Perhaps there is much wisdom from your point of view in being the provacateur, the muse that asks all the questions, but seems unwilliing to work towards the answers.

  I find that to be entirely unwise and unhelpful. But hey, what do I know. I happen to believe that atheists have no organized belief system. I must be nuts.
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  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  AllTimeJeff

  Oh. Wow. Would you think it a fair question to answer as to where you stand then?
• 
  67

  SERIOUS QUESTION: just how many demons will fit inside a person?

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are demons big or little?

  do they take up space?.

  do they infest our cells and peer out like they are trapped inside a jelly bean?.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Terry, I hope you will take this in the spirit I mean it (read; not disrespectfully) but the more important question is, how many olives can you fit in a proper martini?

  Back to the topic at hand, point well made.
• 
  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Essan, why is it so important for you to argue this?

  Your god isn't around. YOU are, in spades. But your god, as YOU describe him, can only be best described as YOUR perception. It is clear YOU want to believe. And more power to YOU. But G O D? Nowhere to be found. And in that, G O D has been very consistent for at least 6,000 years, or more.

  YOUR perception on things, whether they be about god, or the consistency and flavor of good jello, can only be YOUR perceptions.

  What you are missing here is that your argument is flimsy. You are arguing for god on the idea that no one can prove you wrong. Thats it.

  You offer nothing positive as evidence. Lets face facts, if your god did exist with REAL evidence, we simply wouldn't hear the end of it. You wouldn't rely on "Well, you can't prove me wrong, so there!". No. You would absolutely let us have it between the eyes, much as atheists let you have it between the eyes that no ones eyes, ears, or any other photographic or audio recordings exist to back up the monumental claims you as a theist make.

  But you don't' have real evidence. So you are reduced to arguing in trivialities amounting to nothing.

  When you have evidence, I will listen to you. But you only have your emotionally based faith. I don't' begrudge you that. But please don't insult the intelligence of others here who patiently have given you the floor, only to watch you chase your tail in arguments that are nothing more then an exercise in digging into a position that you have no desire in seeing another point of view on.

  Would you argue with the simple reasoning an atheist would give you that god doesn't exist because he doesn't talk, hasn't talked to his children, and evidence exhibiting his existence, love, and care are lacking?

  EVIDENCE!!!!! LOOK UP THAT PLEASE AND GET BACK TO ME!!!!

  Faith and spirituality in my mind are so important, but what angers me at this moment is that your efforts at proving yourself so right make my efforts at being spiritual so stupid, because I have to deal with your invested, dug in position that won't listen to a damn thing.

  You are right. Congratulations. May god bless you for not giving into what he knows all to well. He really hasn't been around. And for whatever reason that is, I know for sure he/she won't censure me for pointing that out, nor for giving atheists a pass for being honest, something many theists seem unable to be.
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  13

  E plurubus unum

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been meaning to talk about this for some time.

  whatever arguements this causes is up to you.. glen beck, who scheduled his little "return to god" fair with exquisite good taste and timing, said that his rally had nothing to do with politics.

  i have no problem with him organizing whatever he wants.

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  AllTimeJeff

  BTS, this wasn't a commentary on Obama. But you pass your Rorshach test. ;)
• 
  243

  Let's settle this for once and for all...... is atheism a belief, a non-belief or an anti-belief?

  by Quillsky in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my opinion is that atheism is not a belief.

  it is a belief in no belief..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  You take Sagan's point out of context, first of all. Secondly, while it is true, Sagan also allowed that something can indeed, be proven false.

  From wikipedia (the same one you selectively quoted from)

  Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy; it asserts that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option: there is insufficient data and the proposition has not yet been proven to be either true or false. [ 1 ] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.

  General forms of the argument:

  1. P has never been disproven therefore P is/(must be) true.
  2. P has never been proven therefore P is/(must be) false.

  Carl Sagan famously criticized the practice by referring to it as "impatience with ambiguity", pointing out that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". This should not, however, be taken to mean that one can never possess evidence that something does not exist (one can possess such evidence). Instead, Sagan's famous quote is a reminder that inferences must be made carefully, and that science makes no claims to absolute certainty, only high probability.

  So, for the sake of this discussion, it seems appropo to say that there is a high probability that god doesn't exist.

  There is a small probability that Jesus is looking at this conversation and laughing his ass off.