Posts by AllTimeJeff

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

You know Bothchtower, you are right. I was trying to parse too many words.

I did insult Sulla by saying he/she was full of shit.

Mea culpa on that.

So, having said that, I think Sulla is still full of shit for the following reason: (please read carefully botchtower)

Sulla stated and insinuated many times that those against the Trinity were responding to the weak arguments, but never strong ones. Also, (and please anyone who disagrees, re-read this thread) Sulla insinuates very plainly that he/she does have a strong argument. BUT. SULLA. NEVER. SHARED. IT. ONCE.

All Sulla has done is self righteously and condescendingly imply that she is right without offering any proof.

Botchtower, I sure hope this helps explain why I said Sulla is full of shit. Thanks for the opportunity to explain.

37

If You Want to Expose JW's, Get it Right!

by AllTimeJeff in

jehovah's witnessses, (and esp their leadership, the governing body) are guilty of so many things, that one has to be careful of the tabloid rumors swirling around them.. it's probably helpful to review first of all what jw's are guilty of.

they are absolutely guilty in their efforts to control active members under the dictates of the conscience of the gb.

every other watchtower article usually has big time references to how we shouldn't be like those self righteous pharisees in jesus day for all the rules, followed by another article next describing what one can (could) or can't (shouldn't) watch on tv, wear for clothing or hairstyles, etc.

AllTimeJeff

Just wanted to bump this with an added comment about Rick Fearon and Six Screens.....

It wouldn't surprise me that there are higher ups at Bethel who think it a good idea to expose the JW's from the inside. Cynicism reigns at Bethel since 1995, so it's all good.

The reason I speak against Rick's methods isn't that I think his obvious intent is bad or wrong. It is that the means in no way justify the means.

Simply put, as I have said many times, most people really don't care too much about JW's or there problems or the problems associated with leaving JW's and trying to become "normal."

And, AND, there are a lot of groups and religions that treat people just like JW's do. (i.e. you and your spirituality isn't as important as the groups agenda)

So I really think we have to be realistic.

I have compared Rick Fearon and has ridiculous website to Captain Ahab in Moby Dick. Not satisfied with surviving with most of his limbs and moving on, he was determined to spend the rest of his life in a quest for revenge against an opponent that is obviously stronger, almost always under water and thus, no one can really see the enemy.

That whale is JW's.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that the group is stronger then "us". Nor is it bad to say, "We were hurt. Maimed. Harmed. Robbed. Deprived..." Whatever.

There does come a point though that we have to realize that whatever we lost, we do have to live the rest of our life. Do we spend the rest of our life seeking our own version of revenge and chase the whale?

I think it's fair to say that not all of us are going to, or were ever going to make good decisions with our lives. So be it.

So while Rick is absolutely allowed to do and say what he wants, that doesn't mean he gets away from me calling bullshit to his crap.

Anyway, it's pretty cool being a former JW. I just hope we all realize that of all the help available on the internet, the biggest reason we left is ultimately in the mirror. For better or worse, we figured it out on our own and followed that. Congrats!

Let's root for as many real honest hearted JW's still in to be able to respond to their own conscience and be honest and leave of their own accord, no matter how difficult it may be.......

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

So Sulla, you believe in the Trinity, right?

Ok. Have fun. I don't.

Betcha that fact won't affect the quality of either our lives one iota.

It's pretty easy to find insults where two people disagree. However, my statement that you are "full of shit" wasn't meant to be an insult. It was meant to describe your efforts at arguing your position, not your position per se.

Would it be helpful to say that I have friends who are Trinitarians and I like them and we agree to disagree?

You are just here acting all insulted because you can't prove what you believe anyway. I get that. That's a tough place to be.

Nice try at changing the conversation. It's pretty clear you can't prove anything, so... whatever.

180

Earthquake at Bethel...mysterious Bethelite speaks up on significant concerns at world headquarters .

by koolaid-man in

i know this post will bring out all those who love to criticise and rebut.

the following information is timely and very plausible.

in view of recent posts and special announcements to be taking place in the organization i found the following to have credibility.

AllTimeJeff

Uh... no Monkey Man.

Sometimes, parents make the natural selection, and other times, we do it to ourselves.

It's nice to be able to pick out the idiots from afar.

180

Earthquake at Bethel...mysterious Bethelite speaks up on significant concerns at world headquarters .

by koolaid-man in

i know this post will bring out all those who love to criticise and rebut.

the following information is timely and very plausible.

in view of recent posts and special announcements to be taking place in the organization i found the following to have credibility.

AllTimeJeff

Hey, did I pick a good day to come and read up a bit?

Fear not lurking Jehovah's Witnesses. You too, pissed off apostates.

We can't help people from themselves. If someone wants to believe this shit, then let's give them the latest copy of the National Enquirer and mark them for induction on your respective Darwin list.....

9

Apologies for my lack of sense of humor

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

..... i still take myself a wee bit too seriously sometimes..... i look back at all i have written since i came here... what a ride!.

i clearly like to argue.

i think i have stated this before, but generally speaking, i don't argue in person.

AllTimeJeff

Hey Totally ADD. Work is the only thing that would keep me from coming... :)

9

Apologies for my lack of sense of humor

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

..... i still take myself a wee bit too seriously sometimes..... i look back at all i have written since i came here... what a ride!.

i clearly like to argue.

i think i have stated this before, but generally speaking, i don't argue in person.

AllTimeJeff

Sometimes, I am a bit naive about people. Comes from the residuals that come from looking for "unity" all the time.

It's good to be disagreed with and to have it implied you are an idiot. Just a reminder that such a reality is the truth.

I still wish I could laugh some people off as opposed to talking about them. My latest debate on the Trinity wasn't a debate at all, just a disagreement as to his/her assesment of their personal belief system.

Oh well. I think it's time for coffee and bacon now.

9

Apologies for my lack of sense of humor

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

..... i still take myself a wee bit too seriously sometimes..... i look back at all i have written since i came here... what a ride!.

i clearly like to argue.

i think i have stated this before, but generally speaking, i don't argue in person.

AllTimeJeff

..... I still take myself a wee bit too seriously sometimes....

I look back at all I have written since I came here... What a ride!

I clearly like to argue. I think I have stated this before, but generally speaking, I don't argue in person. I suffer on occasion from bouts of "being really brave behind a keyboard."

I respect theists and Trinitarians generally, though I really don't agree on many things. I do like to debate though.

Having said that, I am not apologizing for what I say. It is authentic and in the moment.

I wish I knew better how to state my opinions while being more respectful of others who differ in their views from me.

But I don't. Maybe I should just get used to the fact that people will differ, etc etc etc.

Anyway, ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

Shamus, dude, you and Sulla have something in common... ;)

95

Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

by AllTimeJeff in

this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

awesome!

AllTimeJeff

The problem isn't with the Trinity.

The problem is if you insist that the Trinity is THE TRUTH ABOUT GOD.

That's all.

I have beliefs (purposely not disclosed) that are good enough for me. I don't think them weird, just my own personal views on spirituality, not unlike how the Trinity can ground a believer for his life and worldview. Fair enough.

So Sulla, believe all you want. But please don't think that with me, you will get away with maintaining that it is THE way to view god, or that criticism of it comes ONLY from the (easy) bludgeoning of "weak" arguments.

What are the strong ones?

I keep saying that because, while you keep trying to change the conversation to a superior "if you only knew" argument, you still haven't shared what you know.

The only certainty you have expressed is that I don't know what I am talking about. I suppose if that is good enough for you....... But trust me, I feel the same you about you. You don't know what you are talking about either.

Anyway, I hope all Trinitarians hold a nice, hand holding, Trinitarian party tonight and feel good as a result!