AllTimeJeff

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Posts by AllTimeJeff

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  5

  The 9/11 Kevin Cosgrove Tape

  by sizemik in

  1. social
  2. current

  warning .

  this is pretty hearbreaking .

  .. regular youtube visitors will have heard this tape already .

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  AllTimeJeff

  I saw this for the first time last week. The man was in an absolute panic. The very end juxtaposed against the video is just sad.
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  13

  "That's what Armageddon will look like."

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i couldn't put the words back in my mouth.. that is what i said, without premeditation, to our car group on tuesday, september 11, 2001.. on that day, as an elder, i was out in fs.

  in dealing with the shock of what we saw and were listening to on the radio (like good little pioneers, we didn't stop our day, we used this as an opportunity to preach...) some of us were showing the bits of humanity that the borg hadn't completely stolen from us, myself included.. we got an unusual amount of people who talked with us that day.

  opinions as you can imagine varied.

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  AllTimeJeff

  Just want to add my "hear hear" to the comments that JW's are trained to view tragedies as events to be happy about. "Keep in expectation..."

  When you have been lied to and disappointed so much as the rank and file of JW's have, it's little wonder that they get all excited about tragedy. Anything remotely resembling the great tribulation "validates" all they have invested in the bullshit of the Governing Body.
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  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  Dear AllTimeJeff, I am a careful student of your superiority and condescension. I assure you, it has naught to do with the form in which a divinity is conceived to exist, or even whether or not it exists. I follow your online career assiduously, and eagerly look forward to future installments.

  Dear BTS,

  Get a hobby. I'm not impressed.
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  35

  Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

  i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

  i had to make it.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I have a feeling that 9/11 fundamentally changed most JW's in the United States and in western countries more then the GB can even comprehend.

  Well, at least the ones who aren't damaged enough to be honest, open their heart.

  This is ultimately what I meant, the whole point of this thread. There are JW's who have yet to leave, but are stuck in right now. They haven't had their moment of clarity yet. But deep down, they see, they feel. They just need that one moment where their head and their heart finally meet up. (again).
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  95

  Why Arguments and Debates on the Trinity are a Waste of Time

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this isn't meant to be a shit stirring topic, just a thought or two, a memory really, from my jw days.

  because i know i have more experience then most on debating the veracity of the trinity..... there are two camps, people of faith, and people of math.. people of faith will always be more convinced of the trinity every day, because for the most part, the teachers of the trinity are very up front about the fact that it is a mystery.. so the more you point out how illogical it is, the more a mystery the trinity becomes, and thus, it also becomes more real.

  awesome!

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  AllTimeJeff

  That was very sloppy thinking, and it is good that you finally came around to realizing your lack of logic and coherence, although admittedly it took far too long from a superior intellect molded and honed in the Watchtower's top school. But perhaps the humbling experience won't be a total waste of your time or ours, since I found it enlightening myself.

  BTS, if you found it enlightening, then clearly, I aimed too low. I hope that my humbling experience will be the impetus you need to go from humble servant of Christ to self righteous servant of Christ. Oh wait... never mind on that one.

  If you cared to be the least bit charitable, then you will see several comments herin where I clearly aimed my comments at Sulla and not Trinitarians in general. I would have happily included you in my disdain had you involved yourself earlier.

  Needless to say, you took my attempt at honesty here and have tried to turn it into one more churlish attempt in showing your superiority. So please let me say that the following observation about you has nothing to do with your belief in the Trinity; You are a jackass.

  The fact that you, Sulla and others feel superior in believing the Trinity is quite alright with me though. Have fun!
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  35

  Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - The Day My JW Faith Began to Die (finally)

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it was late june of 2001 that i was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. a true lifelong goal had been achieved.

  i had to be appointed an elder before 30. already, peers were starting to be appointed.

  i had to make it.

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  AllTimeJeff

  It was late June of 2001 that I was appointed as an elder at the amazingly seasoned age of 26. A true lifelong goal had been achieved. I HAD to be appointed an elder before 30. Already, peers were starting to be appointed. I had to make it. How was I going to make it to my goal of being a CO (which my ex finally switched over to missionary) if I wasn't an elder in my mid 20's? So many hot shot elders were. How could they pass me up.

  Be careful what you wish for....

  Well, I have to say that the first two months were the best. July and August of 2011. The congregation was doing great, and me along with another young elder from MTS were getting some credit. I was the School Overseer and got to be up in front of everyone every week. I even got to be on my first judicial committee that August, and we got to disfellowship someone! Oh what fun!

  See, being an elder at that age can only ruin a man. While I was starting to accumulate a lot of life experience in a short amount of time, I was still run by ego. I did want to help people, that's true. But I was also looking forward to the credit I would get. (and was getting).

  That Tuesday on 9/11, I woke up and got ready for service with the ex, just like I normally did. Tuesday was not my usual day to take the lead in FS, but the elder who did for 20 years was deleted as an elder the same day I was appointed. Needless to say, he was a bit grumpy. I didn't care. I secretly relished the fact that I got to take over his field service group that day, esp since he was there every Tuesday, listening to me.

  Of course, I was a pioneer in my 20's which meant I was only on time for meetings for FS when I was assigned to take the group out. So being newly appointed, I made sure I was early. It was a 10 minute drive to the KH, and when the ex and I left, I turned it on to sports talk radio. As we pulled up to the KH, the sportscast was going to the top of the 9:00 hour, when the radio host said "We are getting reports of a plane hitting the World Trade Center." Wow! Must have been an accident. Back inside the KH I went to conduct the meeting....

  After the car groups were made, we got a call from our MTS elder that the WTC had been hit twice. I didn't understand, but we went to his house to take a bathroom break and to see what happened....

  WOW!

  I can hardly describe the feeling. The weather where we were in Michigan was identical. A clear cool day. Manhattan looked like an absolute disaster. By the time we got to the elders house, the buildings hadn't fallen. As soon as we left, we learned that they did fall. We decided to go to the territory anyway, listening to the radio news.

  I woke up in a good, brain dead mood that day, which is the perfect speed for an elder. Another mindless day of driving around rural territory, knocking on doors, counting time... Great life.

  It was then that a sister said that she hoped not too many people died. I instinctively, almost callously said "That's what Armageddon will look like."

  I will never forget how I felt when I said that. Something clicked. It was my heart. My real heart, my feelings, that part of my brain that I turned off for my disfellowshipped brother's suicide. Finally, my heart woke up. It was telling me something. I know now what it was telling me.

  "You don't believe this."

  It's easy for me now 10 years later to see what happened to me as I look back. Before 9/11, I never allowed myself to critically examine anything about what I said I believed. Even in the face of losing my family, I was way too invested in the social aspect of being a young hot shot elder and minsterial servant. I was a pioneer with big goals and aspirations and couldn't be bothered to really see if i believed it. I had a goal, a purpose in life.

  I also realize I was used by JW's. They took a young man with high ambition and molded me in their own fashion.

  But now, on 9/11, I just couldn't ignore what was going on. Or what I said.

  This is what Armageddon will look like.

  Do I really believe this?

  In all honesty, some in our car group, my ex included, made "witty" comments looking forward to the destruction of everyone. It's standard fare, you joke and kid. Today though, we meant it. There it was, a video of Armageddon.

  After FS, I had to go to put my talents toward cleaning offices and banks. At each location, I turned on and watched the news. I watched the replays for days after. There it was, the two buildings of the WTC, being hit in spectacular fashion by terrorists who hijacked jets. Falling and killing thousands. Over and over again I watched. I let it affect me.

  For months after that, I suppressed the question of "Did I really believe what I taught?" It was always there. How could I leave though? I had committed my entire young life to JW's? Hell, I ignored my drug addicted brother in his time of need! Shit! I can't be wrong! I can't deal with this now....

  In the months after 9/11, I was introduced as an elder to pedophiles all over the damn place, mentally ill publishers who tried to murder their family and kill themselves, politics among congregation and circuit elders. In short, the honeymoon was over.

  My focus changed forever after 9/11. No longer could I ignore the fact that lives were truly being affected by the teachings of JW's. What part was I playing as an elder?

  I lost that super zeal I had, and replaced it with patience and a more accepting attitude. Interestingly, this was interpreted by the elders in my congregation and circuit as a quick maturing on my part, so I actually got more "privileges" then I would have otherwise had I not been so affected by the events of 9/11.

  What happened on 9/11/01 was horrific. At the time, I was a young starry eyed hot shot cult member, who aspired to be a leader in that cult. I was forced to look around and be honest with myself for the first time ever. It would take another 5 years after when I was at Gilead before that final (and at the time, awful) epiphany happened, and I realized I was around a bunch of manipulative crap. I was trapped in a lie. Thankfully, I got out. It started for me on 9/11........

  I can't change the past, where I came from and what I did, only my future, only tomorrow really. Life isn't cheap, although some people view it that way. But life is short.

  This weekend, I will do something on the 10th anniversary of the attacks that I never got to do the day it happened; mourn and remember.

  Over 3,000 people died that day, with all their friends and families scarred forever. But for the survivors and family members who displayed their humanity, along with their mourning and grief, they unwittingly gave me a gift, and taught me a lesson that I will never forget. It was an opportunity once and for all to be honest, to open my heart, and to join the human race. I thank and remember them for that.
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  13

  "That's what Armageddon will look like."

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i couldn't put the words back in my mouth.. that is what i said, without premeditation, to our car group on tuesday, september 11, 2001.. on that day, as an elder, i was out in fs.

  in dealing with the shock of what we saw and were listening to on the radio (like good little pioneers, we didn't stop our day, we used this as an opportunity to preach...) some of us were showing the bits of humanity that the borg hadn't completely stolen from us, myself included.. we got an unusual amount of people who talked with us that day.

  opinions as you can imagine varied.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  I couldn't put the words back in my mouth.

  That is what I said, without premeditation, to our car group on Tuesday, September 11, 2001.

  On that day, as an elder, I was out in FS. In dealing with the shock of what we saw and were listening to on the radio (like good little pioneers, we didn't stop our day, we used this as an opportunity to preach...) some of us were showing the bits of humanity that the borg hadn't completely stolen from us, myself included.

  We got an unusual amount of people who talked with us that day. Opinions as you can imagine varied. Even in our car group.

  While we were talking, a sister in our group hoped that there weren't too many who died. I callously replied to that, almost shrugging;

  "That's what Armageddon will look like."

  I am pretty sure I said that between 11 and noon that morning. Before that, I was stunned. Another big news story, something to follow on the TV. For the first couple of hours, my mind gathered the facts. I didn't really think about the people.

  It's funny when your mind and your heart make a connection that you just can't ignore. The second those words came out of my mouth, I made myself sick to my stomach. I got sad. I started to feel bad for the people. I then went to a TV at a fellow elders house and watched it again. I saw the people on the ground, New Yorkers who were frightened, "faint out of fear". Yup, just like a picture right out of the Watchtower, buildings were falling, people were scared, crying. Sure looked like Armageddon to me.

  For one nanosecond, I meant it when I said "That's what Armageddon will look like." Just like a good newly appointed elder should say. But scarcely had the words left my mouth before I was confronted with something I was not prepared for, an opportunity to actually look at what I believed.

  I used to believe in Armageddon. But really, how can a JW really understand what that will be like. Billions, BILLIONS of people who will be destroyed, with buildings falling over them, scared, frightened at the great day of Jehovah's fury.

  That's my god, Jehovah, the destroyer of billions who piss him off. That was who I worshipped.

  I hope that the 10th anniversary of the attacks of 9/11 will hopefully cause JW's to think about what they preach. I am proud of the fact that I was able to put it together. I really deep down never did want mankind to be destroyed. It took 9/11 for me to be confronted with what I was taught to believe, and what I actually believed. It would be another 5 years before I was able to finally leave, but that was the start of my long exit out of Jehovah's Witnesses, the cult that teaches God hates and will destroy most everybody.
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  138

  My Father passed away during the night

  by jwfacts in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  dad was a great man, great, despite the religion.

  he was powerful, tall and intelligent, yet humble and kind.

  he was an introvert, and a circuit overseer.

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  AllTimeJeff

  I want to express my deep sympathy for your loss.

  It sounds like he was as honest as he could be for the position he held. The fact that he loved you showed, and that is something that only the child of a JW parent can understand.

  I wish for peace and serenity for you and your entire family.
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  4

  Spreading the truth about WBTS in a 3rd-world continent.

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as you would all know, the org is growing rapidly in uncivilised parts of the world.

  this is mainly due to the fact that they don't get to find out the truth about the org.. is there another way of getting people to know, besides the internet?

  bearing in mind that more than 90% of 3rd world folks don't have access..

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  AllTimeJeff

  Btw, it has nothing to do with the internet per se. It has everything to do in Africa with the real lack of exposure to western marketing, of which, JW's have mastered very well.

  Also, I still think you are a fraud AGBM....
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  4

  Spreading the truth about WBTS in a 3rd-world continent.

  by african GB Member in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as you would all know, the org is growing rapidly in uncivilised parts of the world.

  this is mainly due to the fact that they don't get to find out the truth about the org.. is there another way of getting people to know, besides the internet?

  bearing in mind that more than 90% of 3rd world folks don't have access..

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  AllTimeJeff

  I lived in Cameroon. Where do you live?