My personal watershed moment will always be at Gilead when discussing the first chapters of 2Kings. Rutherford = Elijah and Knorr = Elisha. That was it for me. The bird flew in and out of the clock and I checked out right there.
AllTimeJeff
JoinedPosts by AllTimeJeff
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133
What Is The Most Ridiculous Thing You Have Heard From A Witness?
by minimus ini remember an elder questioning a woman who had admitted to giving and receiving oral sex from her unbelieving mate.
he asked her the most intimate questions which clearly flustered her.
interestingly, she “confessed “ to the elders because her conscience bothered her.
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What is CT Russell's motive?
by sinboi inwhat is russell's motive when he started examining the bible with a group of bible students?
did he intend to form a cult and to mislead others?
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AllTimeJeff
No.
He was was a rich man by inheritance who got caught up in the riptide of the 2nd great awakening, and sincerely added his voice and opinions on when Jesus was coming back during the 1860s and 1870s. Influenced heavily by Nelson Barbour, he came up with his own theology and thoughts on when Jesus would return (1914!) and started a magazine called The Watchtower. He spent a good chunk of his money, and preached a lot. What came after his death, and especially what Rutherford became was not what Russell wanted for the group if you read the source materials.
In fact, what we know as Jehovahs Witnesses is the creation of Rutherford, refined by Knorr, and ghost written by Franz The myth of Russell is the creation of the fertile mind of Franz and used to great effect by succeeding leaders of the cult to this day
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Does the younger generation have our work ethic?
by compound complex ingreetings, you hard workers:.
i've had enough of speaking in generalities during my time as a jw evangelizer.
while my own experience will offer up mere anecdotal examples at best, my contemporaries and i have found that kids today lack the earnestness and drive we older folks have had since youth: setting up a lemonade stand; doing yard work without power assist; mopping floors; running errands for a dime; cleaning parking lots, etc.
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AllTimeJeff
Since you asked......
My feeling is that generationally, everyone goes through their 20's in the same way. They're adults, trying to understand the world they find themselves in, wondering who they are. Some are good, some not so much.
I read a blog by a millennial a couple of years ago, where she wanted to have a job with meaning, the resources to be happy, yet not a slave to a job or money. That was me! I just didn't have social media as a platform for my angst. That blog convinced me personally that it isn't a generational thing, it's what you go through in your 20's...
My personal conclusion is firstly, millenials are just like others going through their 20's and 30's. They're just the first group that had access to and used social media to discuss these things, which had the unintended consequence of glamourizing their generation and their plight. Prior to this, people in their 20's were told to shut up and wait their turn.And let's face it, whatever the "American Dream" was, is not available to this group. Crushing student loan debt and a country that hasn't been this divided since the 60's has served to turn millenials off from anything older generations have to sell. There is no trust, because that trust has been destroyed.
Secondly, what constitutes "work" has changed. It's not like your day Coco, or even mine. And yes, there are those that work hard and get that. However, it is to be expected in my opinion that since work has evolved into "knowledge" work, and manual labor/trades are generally looked down on (for no good particular reason) that millennials are not going to be looking to lemonade stands, when they actually can see the abyss better than any other young generation, and are generally turned off by their prospects.
Another quote that I respect goes something like "Young people will pay the price if they can see the future." No future has been provided that millenials want to work for, and I think they have a point. It isn't about work ethic, it's about the cliff we all are collectively hurtling towards.
Hope sells. Whether it's MLK Jr, Reagan, or Obama, what is needed is a vision that people can buy into. Without that, chaos ensues.
Just my two cents....
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Motives Matter
by AllTimeJeff inthere is a difference between the leadership of the borg (gb 2.5, is that what they're on now?
) and the sheeples, that for a variety of reasons, stick with this nonsense.. not every jw publisher believes this stuff.
the gb knows this.
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AllTimeJeff
nicolaou, I surely hope we’ve all grown since those discussions. Those debates help me work out a lot of own thinking on matters. Very grateful I had this forum and others to help. :)
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33
Why do so many that leave wind up coming back?!
by nowwhat? ini have seen so many that have left.
and their life turned into a dumpster fire.
most do not live the average life of living in suburbs, raising a family.
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AllTimeJeff
I’d be careful about buying into that narrative. Most who leave turn out just fine.
This is just a personal theory, but I suspect that the “dumpster fires” you refer to are actually among the most injured by the cult. When they leave, they usually have no support systems, especially at first, and so struggle, and frequently make poor decisions. Most figure out. Sadly a few do not, including my brother. But that doesn’t mean everyone turns out like that. That’s just GB inspired bull crap.
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24
The speed with which I exited!!
by joe134cd ini was just thinking at how quickly the process was from pimi - pimo - pomo.
i must of spent about 10 years trudging along in the organization very unhappily.
but from the initial stages of learning ttatt to physically walking out the door the process took about 18 months.
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AllTimeJeff
It took Gilead to open my eyes. I actually checked out and admitted to myself that this isn’t the truth smack in the middle of class 119. Such horsehit taught that it was unbelievable. The day in class where I said that to myself, I looked at my now ex and everyone in the class, and they were writing that stuff down like they just said “2+2=4. Got it!” I just couldn’t get over the alarming acceptance of it all.
From the time of that class to my actual exit was about16 months. I was caught in the rip tide, didn’t know what to do and went to Cameroon for about a half year before returning to the States.
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12
Motives Matter
by AllTimeJeff inthere is a difference between the leadership of the borg (gb 2.5, is that what they're on now?
) and the sheeples, that for a variety of reasons, stick with this nonsense.. not every jw publisher believes this stuff.
the gb knows this.
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AllTimeJeff
Interesting turn on the discussion. The Sheeples are a special lot. As an old saying goes, “If you don’t have anything planned for your life, you’ll likely fall into the plans of someone else. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much!”
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Are you better off as a worldly person or a JW?
by Jules Saturn ini was having a conversation with a relative who has been inactive for several decades (part of the ‘75 generation) and he argued that a person that is a born in is better off staying in the organization rather than someone like him who lived as a “worldly” person but then became a witness later in life.
he argues that when you’re born in, all you know nothing outside of the organization, so you’re better off in than out, that’s why when born ins leave the org, they always come back.
i agree that as a born in, your social circle is composed of witnesses but i do feel that even born ins would be happier outside of the org than being in.
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AllTimeJeff
If you examine the statistics at any point since the 1990s you’ll see that the amount baptized is way more than the overall membership growth. There are plenty who leave and are worldly. They never post here or anywhere on the internet. They just left and moved on. For them, it was an episode in their life. This includes a lot of born ins who move on. Not everyone is a troubled mentally disturbed person because they left. We just never hear from the ones who leave.
I’ve never been desirous of letting my JW past dictate my future. That’s why my calling isn’t in the online movement. I’ll certainly call a spade a spade with anyone who asks. But I just want to show the GB and former associates who knew me that, yes, I’m doing just fine without you and your shit eating, “Have a Watchtower and get saved” grin.
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Motives Matter
by AllTimeJeff inthere is a difference between the leadership of the borg (gb 2.5, is that what they're on now?
) and the sheeples, that for a variety of reasons, stick with this nonsense.. not every jw publisher believes this stuff.
the gb knows this.
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AllTimeJeff
There is a difference between the leadership of the Borg (GB 2.5, is that what they're on now?) and the Sheeples, that for a variety of reasons, stick with this nonsense.
Not every JW publisher believes this stuff. The GB knows this. But if you play the game right, you can be called "weak" and be able to hang out with family and friends, with minimal fuss.
The motives of the Sheeples class is not what this is about. Simply put, it's about the leadership. I learned this the hard way in 2005, when I studied the bible in depth, and the whole point of it was to "build my faith up" that the bible, and most/all of the major characters in it (Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Ishmael, Judah, Joseph, Elijah, Elisha, David, Solomon, someone stop me here...) all "prophetically" pointed to the existence of Russell and the JW's in the 20th and 21st centuries.
So, why do you think there is so much "change" in doctrine? About things like the "generation?" Why do you think there is a lack of acknowledgement about 1914 and the generation that saw it? Why do you think they talk so little about 1914 these days? (Big hint, it is 2018...)
The leadership is all about one thing, keeping power, and keeping their fruity little cult going. The scriptures, as I sadly learned at Gilead, are never about the Sheeples. Amazingly, throughout the history of JW's from Russell on down, the ruling class has used the bible to support their leadership, and because of that, you should follow them. THEY are the chosen channel, not you. THEY have a special relationship with (YHWH/GOD/CHRIST/THE LAMB). Not you.THEY get to partake of the emblems, not you. THEY are anointed by holy spirit, not you. When a prophetic doctrine has to be changed because it simply never came true and never had a chance, THEY get to claim that god's spirit is with them, and YOU were wrong to believe it, and remember, change with us because the holy spirit is with us.
Motives matter. This cult isn't about improving your relationship with god. It's another sad exercise and peek into the human experience, that shows frankly that most people do not have, or do not want to, think critically or think for themselves. In farming off that responsibility, and not questioning reality or what you hold dear, delusion sets in, and you get groups like the Sheeples that live their life, unaware that it has never been lived.
That is why I say, think for yourself, live a life you have dreamed and imagined, and go for it. Choose happiness in life, and don't spend too much time chasing this fruity little cult around. They are truly the wizard behind the curtain, and never mattered at all.
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Lloyd’s new book
by jwfacts ini see there has already been discussion over lloyd’s new book how to leave the jehovah's witnesses.
this includes discussion around his personality, motives and financial gains.
i have written a foreword for this book, because it is an important topic that has not been covered in such a complete format before.
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AllTimeJeff
One thing about the internet, it shows what you're about. If you want to troll and find fault, you can and will. We are all mostly anonymous so we can be brave without having to truly confront. I personally think it is a waste of time to judge motives on internet and social media sites.
Healthy confrontation btw, is a lost art, and one I have struggled with, but improving in. Healthy confrontation is about setting expectations and boundaries. It's way too easy on the internet to question motives, which turns into unhealthy confrontation, mixed with a lot of toxicity. (I would suggest it is easier and more relevant to criticize actions...) And I think it's a waste of time to confront too much on motives. Want to debate political or religious positions, or activities and their relative value? That's fair game. But you don't know me and I don't know you...
A book on how to leave JW's is, on the surface, of much more value then some in the ex-JW community who sensationalize things JW's don't really do (like "seeing" subliminal images in WT art, or holding ritualistic sexual meetings at Bethel...) There is so much low hanging fruit when factually attacking JW's because.... (drum roll....) THEY ARE A CULT! Blood doctrine, child molestation, that is real easy. Stick to the facts, and help those who want to leave to leave. That's a pretty worthwhile endeavor.