Posts by AllTimeJeff

24

The Problem with the problem

by Terry in

jehovah's witnesses have an invisible problem which is as unseen as jesus.

the problem with their problem is that it is unseen.. what do i mean by this?.

no future.. the future jehovah's witnesses prepare for is not their future at all.. the jw future is armageddon (very soon!

AllTimeJeff

Nice post Terry. I can relate to this.

I actually got to go to college for a bit until my Dad reneged on helping to pay for it. I then pioneered, which led to my ultimately going to Cameroon.

For 12 years, my future was to be determined.

I still have time to do something great with my life, thankfully. But I shudder to think of those I care about and what they will do when the GB cynically changes a teaching (again) that so many hung their hats on.

JW's waste their lives. 'No, this isn't your time. THEY are having their reward in full. YOU will have a better future, even if you die.'

Part of what woke me up was being at Gilead and seeing all the legal forms I had to sign. It was all my decision to go to be a missionary. The WTBTS just made it possible. At any time, the GB could change their mind and send me home. Or another country. I saw plenty of spiritual people with decades invested in the WTBTS cast off like so much dust.

They were hurt, angry, and still had to pretend that it was all for Jehovah. Their future was now before them, special pioneers (or as I like to call many of these castaways, special charity cases)

No skills, no savings, just memories. They get to watch their "mother organization" change the rules as they ruin more lives.

It pays to not be naive.

JW's have a real problem, it's over 100 years in the making. They are so willing and want to believe, instead of just cultivating the ability to accept the world as it is and do your best within it. Instead, they chase a mirage of the GB's making.

4

Jehovah's Witnesses are Politically Correct

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

call this a really big deal as far as i am concerned.

at the very least, a connect the dots moment.

below is a link on political correctness.

AllTimeJeff

Speaking about the unexamined life not worth living.....

I'm gaining on it.

I didn't get out of thisblog the business part of it, but the realization in me that at certain times, I have matched the description of the politically correct manipulative personality. Esp in my JW years.....

I try not to be that way. It has been a 5 year process to learn to speak my mind. The very first time I did that was my dual 'Dear John' and resignation letter when I first left. Sort of a cannon blast saying where I was at.

For me, I feel some people aren't worth being polite to. Civil, always. Polite? Go out of my way? I still have over half a life to live.... I don't have time.

Still giving this one some thought....

25

Survey - Are DF'ed ones allowed to be around for the prayers at the meetings where you live?

by StandFirm in

and please state the general area you live in, if you could.

thank you..

AllTimeJeff

Disfellowshipped people are allowed to stay for prayer at meetings if they so choose. Many don't stay, and many do. Additionally, I know rogue elders will put in their own opinion and state them to DF people.

You can't account for the rogue elder.

Having said that, it is the policy of the GB that disfellowshipped can stay for prayers or attend meetings so long as they cause no disturbance.

4

Jehovah's Witnesses are Politically Correct

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

call this a really big deal as far as i am concerned.

at the very least, a connect the dots moment.

below is a link on political correctness.

AllTimeJeff

Call this a really big deal as far as I am concerned. At the very least, a connect the dots moment. Below is a link on political correctness. (and in case you are interested, my biggest post JW challenge.

The One Personality Trait You Shouldn't Trust

The main point of this blog is that overly polite, overly politically correct people are not to be trusted, that there is always an agenda underneath, just waiting to blow up a relationship or business.

Enter JW's. And me.

All my life, I learned by imitating the elders and knocking on doors how I could relate to everybody. That's the one whole key to JW's, when you first meet one, they try to relate to you. That is the whole point behind the 'How to Overcome Conversation Stoppers' in the old Reasoning book. The one key technique is to overcome any genuine objection by diving right into it as if it were a pool.

Christian? So are JW's. Muslim? Hey, you are monotheistic, just like us? Atheist? Can't blame you, we can show you everything wrong with all religions. (of course our's is the one true one...) Agnostic? Hey, we JW's are on that same road, sometimes we get confused about things like Gentile Times, 1914, the word generation. Sometimes, we can't find our own @$$ with two hands and a flashlight.

That is why the GB, and most "company man" elders seem so.... vanilla. They smile with a far away look in their eye. Whether it be at a householder's door, or dealing with someone at the KH, an elder is always looking to relate, to put you at ease, in order so that they can influence whatever discussion or situation they are in.

It's called Manipulation 101.

Of course, we all know that, but I find in myself this horrific tendency to carry on with all the influence that the elders have taught me, to try and relate to anyone and everyone, at the expense of.....

At the expense of me. Something I see in many other former JW's on this site and those I have met, esp when they first leave.

Now don't get me wrong, I am me. But under stress, sometimes, I break down. I try to "feel" or understand what others might be thinking or feeling, esp about me. It doesn't happen to often these days, but it does happen.

Instead of being authentic, I try and slice the baby in two. Instead of offering the uniqueness of me, I try instead to sell how I am just like everyone else.

This blog has been an eye opener. Here I am, and most people, yeah, those damn worldly people, value differences. They actually like a more acerbic me, ready to give an opinion as opposed to meld with the collective.

JW's are politically correct, not to avoid giving offense, but to manipulate.

I wonder if like me, many who leave must deal with the after effects of this legacy. Always trying to relate to and manipulate others, instead of giving voice to the uniqueness that is each of us.

57

The Real Issues Facing former Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

on internet forums such as these, it is to be expected that there will be people who want to save jw's.

esp from (thinking for) themselves.. however, the real dillema's facing an ex jw who leaves, whether on their own terms or being disfellowshipped are real and haven't changed.. .

lonliness, how to make friends, is a big issue.. fear, esp fear based on superstition, a fear of god and of the future that is not in any way based in proveable fact.. education, how to think and reason critically to avoid being taken advantage of is a big challenge.. love, sex, and how to navigate your way around all of that hot mess.. geez, yeah, forgot.

AllTimeJeff

Shamus, it's ok. I do fit the phrase "Women want him, men want to be like him, monkeys pretend they are him."

57

The Real Issues Facing former Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

on internet forums such as these, it is to be expected that there will be people who want to save jw's.

esp from (thinking for) themselves.. however, the real dillema's facing an ex jw who leaves, whether on their own terms or being disfellowshipped are real and haven't changed.. .

lonliness, how to make friends, is a big issue.. fear, esp fear based on superstition, a fear of god and of the future that is not in any way based in proveable fact.. education, how to think and reason critically to avoid being taken advantage of is a big challenge.. love, sex, and how to navigate your way around all of that hot mess.. geez, yeah, forgot.

AllTimeJeff

Yeah yeah. Go suck on a bannana.

57

The Real Issues Facing former Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

on internet forums such as these, it is to be expected that there will be people who want to save jw's.

esp from (thinking for) themselves.. however, the real dillema's facing an ex jw who leaves, whether on their own terms or being disfellowshipped are real and haven't changed.. .

lonliness, how to make friends, is a big issue.. fear, esp fear based on superstition, a fear of god and of the future that is not in any way based in proveable fact.. education, how to think and reason critically to avoid being taken advantage of is a big challenge.. love, sex, and how to navigate your way around all of that hot mess.. geez, yeah, forgot.

AllTimeJeff

Shamus, you da bomb!

57

The Real Issues Facing former Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

on internet forums such as these, it is to be expected that there will be people who want to save jw's.

esp from (thinking for) themselves.. however, the real dillema's facing an ex jw who leaves, whether on their own terms or being disfellowshipped are real and haven't changed.. .

lonliness, how to make friends, is a big issue.. fear, esp fear based on superstition, a fear of god and of the future that is not in any way based in proveable fact.. education, how to think and reason critically to avoid being taken advantage of is a big challenge.. love, sex, and how to navigate your way around all of that hot mess.. geez, yeah, forgot.

AllTimeJeff

AGuest, and others (who are not named Shamus, my psychotic monkey half who is off his meds)

I think that all of this is in the eye of the beholder. I doubt seriously that anyone comes here to GO towards god, but I respect your opinion if that is the case.

My point was that in the face of preaching, you should really just let nature take it's course and be a resource. Sure, if you still believe in god, make your case. But surely we all realize just how personal that can be, and how upsetting the subject is....

Beyond that, I will have to re-read my first post, but I don't have a problem with theists or theism, just tactics. It's one thing to offer a point of view, it's quite another thing to insist on it. I think the theists who spoke up on this thread speak volumes about what a potentially healthy and helpful discussion on the subject could look like.

Also, I do believe in a higher power, my own theoretical god. She and I talk to each other regularly, and she told me that Jesus doesn't talk to cyber trolls or Billy Graham. She also is a Steelers fan, and hates monkeys. ;)

57

The Real Issues Facing former Jehovah's Witnesses

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

on internet forums such as these, it is to be expected that there will be people who want to save jw's.

esp from (thinking for) themselves.. however, the real dillema's facing an ex jw who leaves, whether on their own terms or being disfellowshipped are real and haven't changed.. .

lonliness, how to make friends, is a big issue.. fear, esp fear based on superstition, a fear of god and of the future that is not in any way based in proveable fact.. education, how to think and reason critically to avoid being taken advantage of is a big challenge.. love, sex, and how to navigate your way around all of that hot mess.. geez, yeah, forgot.

AllTimeJeff

@ still thinking

I didn't say that theists weren't welcome, it's just that former JW's, esp those first leaving, need their space. Also, I think that saying you have a theistic world view (i.e. "I believe in and love god and here is what my god has done for me") is very approrpriate.

However, that would be different from proselytizing. (i.e. "I believe in god and you should too, because I am right, and my god is the only way to worship, and you are likely to receive eternal condemnation if you don't believe like I do...")

Of course there are people who need a variety of help while recovering. But just like someone recently divorced, people usually don't marry the next person they date, or at least they shouldn't, and should just chill out and get to know themselves a bit. Same thing with religion.

People often find that after they do chill out, they personally don't need or want religion anymore, or find something unique that works for them.

126

A simple way to tell God probably doesn't exist

by poor places in

when's the last time you prayed to god?

did he respond?

i prayed to him for years and years and received no response.

AllTimeJeff

As an aside, Sam Whiskey is as charming as ever. I am sure god is wondering why more people don't believe in him, since he has Sam to enlighten the way.... Maybe if god did his own talking for himself instead of having to rely on anonymous people on the internet (and non anyomous bedrocks of logic like Glen Beck) then more people would believe, but I digress.....

Really folks, I don't argue for god's existence, esp in the traditions of the West.

I actually believe in higher powers existing, in the same way that theories exist. It is just a theory of mine, which is why I don't argue for my beliefs. Actually "belief" is a strong word.

Spirituality is more relevant today anyway.

I think it's clear that the West, and fundies in general, need to rethink their no show of a god that they continue to insist is "right there in front of our face, if only we used our eyes of faith and believed, and tapped our heels three times together".

It won't happen. God as he is thought most certainly doesn't exist.

But since people of faith often refuse to produce any evidence other then their own faith, this is a topic that will continue to distract. Move on. God will show up if he wants, and if she does, she won't be mad at you. My parent's didn't get mad at me when they were late, they apologized. If God exists and is worthy of "worship", the first thing she will do is apologize for being late, exlain what the hell happened, then make some dinner. Probably for the good folks in Africa and other famine stricken parts of the earth. They need god's attention a little more then those of us in the West.