Posts by AllTimeJeff

17

You want me to believe...

by AllTimeJeff in

how many times did i hear this or its variations from householders and return visits as i preached the jw message:.

in a nutshell, what keeps most jw's together (and the group as a religion) is the validation of their own ideas.

hey, at the meetings in those kh's, it didn't matter what anyone else thought.

AllTimeJeff

Miracle

d: an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world thatsurpasses all
known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

26

"We aren't qualified to think for ourselves...."

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

reading a few posts here today, a statement that was said often at gilead came up in my head.

"we aren't qualified to think for ourselves...".

that statement comes on the oft quoted scripture "it doesn't not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

But thinking for ourselves really isn't limited to the empirical world, as many believe: it is necessary as to the spirit world, as well. HAS to be. "Directing one's steps", however, has nothing to do with thinking for oneself. The Most Holy One of Israel doesn't want robots - indeed, He WANTS us to think... and make choices. Which is why we have free will. The caveat is that we are RESPONSIBLE for our choices. Not Him... and not anyone else. True, others may have some responsibility for misleading us... but BEING misled, after a certain point in one's life... is really on such one and no one else.

I agree Shelby. I can't say I can do more then respectfully tolerate other points of view religiously. My tolerance isn't meant to be condescending, but respectful of you.

17

You want me to believe...

by AllTimeJeff in

how many times did i hear this or its variations from householders and return visits as i preached the jw message:.

in a nutshell, what keeps most jw's together (and the group as a religion) is the validation of their own ideas.

hey, at the meetings in those kh's, it didn't matter what anyone else thought.

AllTimeJeff

Cleaned up my original post. Sorry bout that.

17

You want me to believe...

by AllTimeJeff in

how many times did i hear this or its variations from householders and return visits as i preached the jw message:.

in a nutshell, what keeps most jw's together (and the group as a religion) is the validation of their own ideas.

hey, at the meetings in those kh's, it didn't matter what anyone else thought.

AllTimeJeff

How many times did I hear this or its variations from householders and return visits as I preached the JW message:

"Ok, so you want/expect me to believe________"

In a nutshell, what keeps most JW's together (and the group as a religion) is the validation of their own ideas. Hey, at the meetings in those KH's, it didn't matter what anyone else thought. We all knew we believed the same thing. It validated us as different, yet, we didn't have to be alone. Yup, bad ideas frequently get momentum. At one time, we were happy to believe all kinds of crap, because we never asked ourselves deep down if it made any sense at all!

Fast forward to our leaving, and obviously that was the worst thing we could have had happen to us. Yet, what we once accepted (for many of us) is now not acceptable. That's why the normal response to unbelievable crap starts with, "Wait, you want me to believe......"

You want me to believe that only JW's are going to survive Armageddon and that people will be judged and destroyed based on their reaction to that 8 year old's presentation of the WT magazine?

You want me to believe that you can be the one true religion that Jehovah and Jesus chose in 1919 and yet not believe in practically anything you taught in 1919?

You want me to believe that the GB is appointed by Holy Spirit to lead the one true religion, and yet can get away with all their flip flops because they are only spirit directed and not spirit inspired? You want me to believe there is a difference between spirit inspired and spirit directed?

You want me to believe that the most loving act you can do for a sinner, even if they are your own kin, is to shun them?

You want me to believe that you can change the meaning of what "generation" means in Mt 24 three times since 1994 and still claim that you are the one true religion?

You want me to believe that the whole point of the bible was to prophesy the existence of the WTBTS and the first 3 presidents of the WTBTS in the 20th century? That the bible was ultimately for the 144,000 and that's it?

You want me to believe that the trumpet blasts in Revelation really foretold a series of conventions held by JW's in the 1920's?

You want me to believe that Jehovah would rather you handle pedophiles your own way as opposed to turning them into the police?

You want me to believe that I can't have blood transfusions, but can have medicine and fractions derived from blood?

You want me to believe that Jehovah cares about the sexual behaviors I engage in with my marriage mate?

You want me to believe that Jehovah will destroy me because I didn't believe the current teaching of the year by the GB?

I could go on and on about JW's and a lot of groups. That phrase "You want me to believe... what??!!" is so powerful, it might have saved me some time if I just asked myself that sooner in my life.

246

Why Won't They Carbon Date This?

by Perry in

"for the first time in human history a dinosaur fossil is presenting us with the opportunity to see what a living dinosaur looked like.

in 2001 a field research team unearthed the worlds most complete dinosaur fossil, a brachylophosaurus nicknamed leonardo.

this incredible dinosaur has all of its skin covering its body, missing only a bit on the head and tail.

AllTimeJeff

Awen, in all sincerity, I apologize to you since you say that website doesn't represent your thoughts.

Having said that, I prefer in a forum to speak for myself. If you have got facts, you got facts.

That wesbite isn't to be taken seriously, but that doesn't mean that you should be mocked. I believe in god. Definitely not yours, and I don't argue for what she means to me. ;)\

Anyway, I apologize for insulting you.

26

"We aren't qualified to think for ourselves...."

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

reading a few posts here today, a statement that was said often at gilead came up in my head.

"we aren't qualified to think for ourselves...".

that statement comes on the oft quoted scripture "it doesn't not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

AllTimeJeff

No matter how sophisticated our brain is no one brain has the time, or possibly even the capacity, to learn everything. We are designed as/evolved into a pack species.

We don't have to be college educated experts on everything. That is impossible obviously. But for most matters, there is usually sufficient references available to familiarize oneself with the basics.

I hold people accountable for what they say, or post. That's all. If you don't know, there is nothing wrong with saying that and doing a little research.

246

Why Won't They Carbon Date This?

by Perry in

"for the first time in human history a dinosaur fossil is presenting us with the opportunity to see what a living dinosaur looked like.

in 2001 a field research team unearthed the worlds most complete dinosaur fossil, a brachylophosaurus nicknamed leonardo.

this incredible dinosaur has all of its skin covering its body, missing only a bit on the head and tail.

AllTimeJeff

Awen, here is where we go awry with your link.

We compare the theory of evolution with the Bible’s creation account in easy-to-understand terms, using evidence from the fields of paleontology, geology, biology, and astronomy. We provide links and a bibliography for those who want to study both sides of the issue. We fully explain all the scientific terms on this page.

If irony isn't lost on you, then I hope you had a good chuckle. I sure did... Anyway, the first substantive statement after that is

How did humans (and everything else) come into existence? The only explanation you will find in public school and university textbooks is the theory of evolution. Yet, no scientific, provable evidence supporting the theory of evolution has emerged since Charles Darwin popularized it in 1859.

Bullshit. Moving on to the next point...

Since we can prove the Bible is true, it makes sense to find out what the Bible tells us about how life was first created and how we got here. After all, if God is really God, He was there at the time and would know how to tell us what happened. The Bible’s account of the beginning of life in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 can be understood by anyone.

The Bible is "true" in the same way that Lord of the Rings is true. There are thousands of competing interpretations of the bible in the Judeo/Christian world. Not even all members of your club agree on it's interpretation. So stop representing your belief as a foregone conclusion.

From there, the essay you chose represents the evolution/creation debate in very much the same terms as JW's did. (i.e. Science and the Bible agree in the order of how the universe began.) Really?

Oh, I see you believe in the Flood. That's a demerit right there. This is a great quote from that essay....

Notice in Genesis chapter 7, verses 11 and 12 that the rain is almost an afterthought. The first two sources of water for the flood mentioned were “the fountains of the great deep” and “the windows of heaven.” Science has discovered large underwater springs [2], so it is easy to imagine “fountains of the great deep” being opened by God, allowing the pressurized water to contribute to the flood.

First of all, and I want you to play real close attention to this: THERE IS NO FREAKING EVIDENCE OF A GLOBAL FLOOD AS IT IS DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE! ZERO! NADA! (but I do agree, you all do find it easy to imagine a bunch of stuff)

Also, please note (if everyone can remember) that this explanation is exactly the way that JW's teach the flood.... I dont' know what that means either, but I bet you're smart enough to figure it out, if you wanted to.

See, you believe that god destroyed the earth once with water and saved that generations version of the Brady Bunch in a big wooden box that floats. Oh, and it was filled with lottery winners from a zoo.

Instead of arguing about evolution or any point, you put up a website with propaganda and no facts.

I know, I know. I am mocking you, I don't want to insult your intelligence on that. Because you sure as hell are insulting mine by posting that crap.

26

"We aren't qualified to think for ourselves...."

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

reading a few posts here today, a statement that was said often at gilead came up in my head.

"we aren't qualified to think for ourselves...".

that statement comes on the oft quoted scripture "it doesn't not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.

AllTimeJeff

It's a tendency toward not wanting to be responsible for ourselves and our thoughts that is the real issue.

It's so much easier to take someone else's word for it.

Oh, and laziness. That's a problem too.

Truthfully, god isn't the problem. I get it. I just believed unquestioningly all that I was taught. That is why I knocked on doors talking about Jehovah.

Cause I believed without questioning, and not looking at other points of view. Tough lesson to learn. And it is very difficult to go through life, knowing (yeah, KNOWING) what I do now about people and their world view.

It's tough to see ignorant people defend themselves out of an emotional need to be right, when instead they could, simply be honest.

But when we fear (FEAR) different ideas, different people, then you get conservatives who believe man and dinosaur lived together, that Jesus will come... someday, sometime.

God's fine. Your (personal) faith is awesome. Now please, keep your bullshit idea's about how "we" got here to yourself, and try hard to not insist that they be taught in (gulp) school. It's ok. I used to believe weird shit to. You CAN get over it. Now come here, give me a hug......

246

Why Won't They Carbon Date This?

by Perry in

"for the first time in human history a dinosaur fossil is presenting us with the opportunity to see what a living dinosaur looked like.

in 2001 a field research team unearthed the worlds most complete dinosaur fossil, a brachylophosaurus nicknamed leonardo.

this incredible dinosaur has all of its skin covering its body, missing only a bit on the head and tail.

AllTimeJeff

Meh. 7000 on the internet is nothing. I bet more "Darwinists" have stopped by there then anyone.

246

Why Won't They Carbon Date This?

by Perry in

"for the first time in human history a dinosaur fossil is presenting us with the opportunity to see what a living dinosaur looked like.

in 2001 a field research team unearthed the worlds most complete dinosaur fossil, a brachylophosaurus nicknamed leonardo.

this incredible dinosaur has all of its skin covering its body, missing only a bit on the head and tail.

AllTimeJeff

This is the disclaimer on Jaguarbass's link. Let me say this, the images aren't pictures of dinosaurs. They are from coloring books.

All text and images are protected under U.S copyright law.
Do not use without permission.