Now that logic has been discussed and we have a handle on it--can anyone show me the logic of life without a creator. I still need the logic of how life began. I hear about "small changes" but lets get back to how did it start...Can someone please help me logically understand how everything we know came from nothing? I am a logical person. To me; evolution is more of a stretch than believing in God.
Eliveleth
JoinedPosts by Eliveleth
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UNDENIABLE LOGIC. Some cherish it while others dismiss it. Which are you?
by nicolaou inthere are so many ways to get into this topic; homeopathy, astrology, feng shui, alien abductions, seances and so on ad nauseum but let's pick a simple one - mathematics.
do you accept the undeniable logic that 1+1 must always equal 2?.
i cannot conceive of a situation where 1+1=3 but there was a time when i did!
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Eliveleth
Absolutely beautiful! I love the diversity of design in plants. No two alike, each one unique.
Thanks for sharing this.
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Very Sad
by geevee intoday my in-laws were telling us about an old couple in their cong.
sadly the wife who is nearly 80, is dying of cancer.
she has it so bad, she cannot eat, only drink a little.
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Eliveleth
I am 76 years old. Even though I have long since (1983) decided that many of the doctrines of the WT are not taught in the Bible the way they believe them, I understand the mentality of this woman. I believe that although we do not get salvation from works, I am convinced that some "works" please God and that is what I want to do. I realize that going from door to door, even as a Christian, is not required by God. (I thank Him for that, as going from door to door used to make me physically ill) she feels like it is pleasing God. My motive was to serve God and His son Jesus, it was not because I thought the WT required it, I thought it was pleasing God. Our last acts on earth give us peace. She is doing what she feels will please God and bring her blessing, and it will.
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Destroying One's Faith
by Sunspot inthe jws are always grumbling that former jws are trying to "destroy their faith" and that they have nothing nice to say about the men who write for the watchtower or their peculiar teachings.. but then---jws go to people's homes and try to convince them that they should stop:.
praising jesus,.
celebrating or honoring their lord and savior on his resurrection or on his birth,.
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Eliveleth
patientbrother said: "I agree whole heartedly with the above post, remember Jesus warned that all this would happen, he didn't say in the bible" I'm coming to you to bring daughter and mom close, to bridge the gap between father and son, no he said very clearly that the realization of what truth really is would be the dividing factor. The same attitude displayed by the pharisees is being displayed by those in our halls today, how ever there are alot and I mean " ALOT" who are hurting inside, but we wait on Jehovah, the inspection of his house did not take place back in 1914 , any person who truly trusts Jehovah knows that , remember Jesus words? " on a day when the slave does not expect it the master will arrive to inspect" those of us, you and I have every thing we need in the bible, show compassion show love, show understanding, we have all the tools necessary You and I are serving in that great big house , now regardless of what the head slave is doing we all know our jobs, If you see some one down spiritually build them up, don't tear down, when Jesus spoke to the samaritan woman at the well that was a huge no no for a Jew at that time, liken that to seeing a DF'd person at the store now make application, where is your heart really? I saw a young man from our hall who has been df'd for 3 months walking twoards me at the mall, he saw me coming straight at him and looked almost scared and embarrassed like he didn't want to make eye contact, but instead I kept going at him I said his name and hugged him, we slapped eachother on the back just said hello and it was like that was all he needed, he walked away smiling and inside my heart felt so awsome. we only said hello , we didn't sit and chat for an hour or have lunch, but really I might have broken one of " MAN's" laws but I kept a very important one of God's laws, keep showing love to one another as I have show love to you. Even the Apostle Paul who I rarely quote becuase some times he reminds me of these olderones who have lost the love, even he said , dont punish a person to the point of where you become satanic in your dealings and then you break the person down so much their heart is broken into tiny pieces...... Woe to him that stumbles one of my little sheep. tender and compassionate is the true mark of some one who loves Jehovah." The biggest hurt that most of us has had to endure is being ignored, shunned and spoken against. I believe that we were put on this earth to encourage, love and care for the others put here too. Our son is still a JW and sends us an email from time to time to tell us he has moved or some other "family business" but otherwise will not talk to us or let us visit him or his family. We have great-grandchildren we have never seen. There are many things that the WT has done that I would love to share with him, however, if I did it might discourage him and maybe even cause him to lose faith. I do not choose to do this because I believe that a person is happier and better off having faith in God, than they are without. I have a xjw friend who is very diligent in going out and posting pamphlets on doors exposing the doctrines and past history of the WT. Her son finally left, but now is living a totally immoral life. He has lost all his faith in God. I love Jehovah's Witnesses. I hate that they feel that they must obey the leaders of the WT and turn off their hearts to those who have left and call them names in their publications, but as long as my son (or any other JW) believes in God and Jesus (even though he may not have it correct) I feel he will be saved. I believe that God reads the heart and knows his sheep regardless of what else they believe. The Bible says:' Whoever believes in Jesus will be saved.' Encouragement and love is what we all need and are seeking. WE NEED TO SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE. There needs to be a place where we can go and expect that we will be built up. Those who are doubting the WT should be encouraged and not put down or called names. We who have left should be the ones loving and accepting, not trying to destroy their faith, since many of them equate faith in the WT with faith in God. Only God can lead them out at His time, but kindness and understanding go a long way to helping others to open up and express their doubts. When others attack our faith (even though we may be doubting) we immediately rise up to defend it, whether we are Christians, pagans, atheists or others. During our life in the WT of almost 50 years, we heard lots of stuff against the WT. We had our doubts many times about what was said but we were loyal to the WT. And at that time there was no place to go to express our doubts (1983) It took holy spirit (when we realized we could ask for it) and God's timing to bring us out.
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Just to let you know
by Rethinking ini've decided to cut my ties with jws.. i don't post here much as i've stated before, but you all don't realize how much i appreciate this forum and the support it gives..
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Eliveleth
Rethinking:
Welcome to the real world. We have been out 23 years and have never regretted the decision. Of course, we miss all our old friends and our son and his family and my sister and most of her family, but as Jesus said 'if we leave family (paraphrases) for his name then we will gain a hundredfold.' This has been true for us. The friends we have now are "unconditional" friends and not depending on us to believe the same as they do.
It is not easy, but we are much happier.
There are a lot of people out here that understand what you are going through and will support you in your decision.
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Jehovah's witnesses and university
by xxfreethinkerxx inhi all,
check out this new video, a talk (read in italian) by governing body member gerrit losch about choosing a higher education or not.
enjoy!
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Eliveleth
Well, they are still trying!!! I remember attending the Internation Convention in St. Louis, Mo in 1941. We children (I was 10 at the time) were told to not get married and certainly not to have children because the end was "months away". They even gave us a book called "Children" which had a story about two young people who wanted to get married, but decided not to so they could devote all their time and energy into pioneering because the end was so near. We even got to shake Judge Rutherford's hand. What a privilege. I was encouraged (TOLD) to take a "business course" in high school so I would not have to go to college and be around "worldly people". I guess I was not a very good witness in my heart. I got married and had 4 children. However, like a good witness I did not encourage my children to go to college. As a matter of fact, when our son was born, we thought he would never even have to go to school. He is 56 years old. He is still a witness and not encouraging his children and grandchildren to go to college Before we left the org. we knew a couple who had put off having children. They are old and bitter, but still JWs. Things have changed for us since then. We left the WT in 1983 and now we encourage our grandchildren to go and get an education. I guess we just got smarter. LOL
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UK- JW MINISTERIAL SERVANT SERIAL RAPIST
by DannyHaszard inman escapes jail for sex attacksbbc news - 1 hour, 42 minutes agoa jehovah's witnesss gets a community sentence for a series of sex assaults on children and adults.man escapes jail for sex attacks porter was put on the sex offenders registera jehovah's witness has escaped a jail term after admitting a series of sexual assaults on children and adults in clevedon.
michael porter, an elder in the religion, pleaded guilty to 24 counts of indecent assault and gross indecency on 13 victims aged 18 months and older.
among the individuals were others involved in the faith.
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Eliveleth
milliejw
My husband and I came out of JWs in 1983. We had been in the org. since we were children. My own father (an elder, they called them servants in the 40s) sexually abused me. No, I did not go to the other elders. I knew from their attitude they would do nothing and I did not want to hurt my mother. I was too embarrassed and ashamed that this had happened to me.
I do not blame God for my father's immorality. Getting out of the WT did not change my love for Jehovah (although I have since learned that God's name is not Jehovah, that that name is a made-up name) I still love God. I know now that I can ask for Holy Spirit to guide me and that I can have a relationship with Jesus. We are happier now. We do not belong to any church, but we tried several. I do not believe it is necessary. God knows our heart.
I feel the same way you do. I am heart-sick that this man will be allowed to carry on his perversion without any sanctions from the WT. If I had not left already, I would now.
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Your Opinion: What Do You Think Of Legally Going After Individual Elders?
by minimus insince the society has told the elders that they are basically on their own, why don't we give more thought to suing the elders-----not just the watchtower society?.
when i was an elder ii was very concerned that i might get sued and be liable in a lawsuit.
it was one of the reasons i didn't want to be an elder..
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Eliveleth
It is a good idea, but because the courts are so afraid of getting involved in religious affairs, it probably won't do any good. In 1984 my husband and I sued the WT and the elders who disfellowshipped us. A brother, (an ex witness who had been a CO) contacted us. He was going to Law School and wanted to see if it was possible. We got as far as the first appeal and because we did not have the money to compete with the millions that the WT has for attorney and court fees, we just gave it up. If we had had money, perhaps we could have pursued it, but you have to have a lot. It is not easy to sue someone, no matter how wronged you might have been. This is our website: www.geocities.com/veliveleth The transcript of our disfellowshipping is at the bottom.
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Your Opinion: What Do You Think Of Legally Going After Individual Elders?
by minimus insince the society has told the elders that they are basically on their own, why don't we give more thought to suing the elders-----not just the watchtower society?.
when i was an elder ii was very concerned that i might get sued and be liable in a lawsuit.
it was one of the reasons i didn't want to be an elder..
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Eliveleth
It is a good idea, but because the courts are so afraid of getting involved in religious affairs, it probably won't do any good. In 1984 my husband and I sued the WT and the elders who disfellowshipped us. A brother, (an ex witness who had been a CO) contacted us. He was going to Law School and wanted to see if it was possible. We got as far as the first appeal and because we did not have the money to compete with the millions that the WT has for attorney and court fees, we just gave it up. If we had had money, perhaps we could have pursued it, but you have to have a lot. It is not easy to sue someone, no matter how wronged you might have been. This is our website: www.geocities.com/veliveleth The transcript of our disfellowshipping is at the bottom.
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Where's the Great Crowd?
by Mrs. Witness insorry if this has been discussed ad nauseum, but i'm at work and don't have time to search...i'm having a discussion (argument) with my jw hubby about the location of the great crowd.
we've looked at rev.
4 through 7 and he agrees with me that everything is in heaven "before the throne" until we get to the great crowd... does anyone have any easy-to-understand comments on this subject?
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Eliveleth
This question is what led my husband and I out of the WT. What impressed me in my study of this subject (from the New World Translation by the way) was in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation: If you read the Greek Translation word for word it says that in vs.9: "the "great crowd " is: "in sight of the throne and also "in sight of the Lamb" and v.15:"Through this they are in sight of the throne of the God, and they are rendering sacred service to him of day and of night in the divine habitation of him, and the (one) sitting upon the throne will tent upon them."
I did a lot of research on the book of Revelation and the word "naos" and "hieron" and was convinced without a doubt that I had been deceived by the WT. (This was a shock to me because when I prayed for guidance, I expected that God would show me that the WT was the "truth") All my research was done in the Kingdom Interlinear and Strong's Concordance. I think it is pretty remarkable that when you ask for Holy Spirit, you can find the truth anywhere.