Oded Lipschits in his recent book "The Fall and Rise of Jerusalem" (published by Eisenbrauns) places it in 586. There is a detailed analysis of historical and scriptural references. I have not yet read the book so I can't tell you why he says 586 and not 587.
Posts by jeanV
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27586BC
by Jeffro incan anyone provide any evidence to support the claim that jerusalem was destroyed in 586bc, rather than 587bc?
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Experts on 607 BCE--How do you make the point simply and effectively?
by whyizit ini have been going back and forth via email with a jw friend.
the subject got around to 607 bce, so i asked her if she could find a non-wts source to prove that date.
of course, she writes back telling me about all the complicated info.
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jeanV
Someone from this thread would have to ask Jehovah himself or one of his prophets living today to reveal his timetable to us such that we can all clearly grasp what was intended, methinks.
if it was so important why did He not provide an absolute chronolgy in the Bible in the first place, without needing secular chronology? or could it be that secular chronology is not that bad after all? If most of secular chronology is to be rejected (and I strongly advise you to have a look at it and you shall see that it is not so simple to label it as inaccurate), as the WTBTS does, why it is 587bce and not 537bce to be discarded? Because some blessed people had a revelation? the same ones that got it wrong so many times? the same ones that, guided by holy spirit, wrote tha God, before creating Eve, let Adam determine if there was a suitable companion for him among the animals? (look at the book life everlasting in the freedom of the sons of God, pages 43 onwards)
You're clearly not ready for this freedom, Fred. And I feel for you, because I once thought just like you did. If you feel hurt, I understand that too. I didn't want Wonderland to end. I wanted my tract-cover world to make sense. In the end, I knew I could not make any more excuses for the men in Brooklyn.
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Experts on 607 BCE--How do you make the point simply and effectively?
by whyizit ini have been going back and forth via email with a jw friend.
the subject got around to 607 bce, so i asked her if she could find a non-wts source to prove that date.
of course, she writes back telling me about all the complicated info.
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jeanV
Fred, apart from the stereotype sentences typical of those that have weak arguments, do you have any supportive evidence on 607BCE that could possibly help some of us changing our mind?
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Experts on 607 BCE--How do you make the point simply and effectively?
by whyizit ini have been going back and forth via email with a jw friend.
the subject got around to 607 bce, so i asked her if she could find a non-wts source to prove that date.
of course, she writes back telling me about all the complicated info.
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jeanV
jeffro, the hardcore JW will never be convinced anyway ;-)
whyizit , the best would be to read Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonsson, but I doubt that your friend would do it. You can find similar info on the following websites: http://corior.blogspot.com/ (look under gentile times and 1914) and http://www.jwfiles.com/607v587/index.htm; here is a site examining Furuli's first book on chronology http://user.tninet.se/~oof408u/fkf/english/furulirev.htm
There is plenty of other material on the web (most of it comes from COJ work).
What is amazing, and should be pointed out to your friend, is the lack of critical analysis by the WTBTS on the massive evidence pointing to 587BCE. The only work currently in use to support 607BCE is the Insight book, which does not mention by name any of the documents supporting 587BCE, it just makes a vague (and appealing to the profane) analysis of astronomical diaries, business tablets, etc... In reality these are the same documents the WTBTS absolutely needs in order to support 537BCE (and consequently 607BCE), which, in the WTBTS "logic" are only valid when they support the WTBTS chronology....
Even the Let your Kingdom Come appendix, where documents like ptolemy's canon, berossus and VAT4956 were at least mentioned (not properly analysed), seems to have been abandoned (for example in the revised Revelation book the reference to KC was replaced by reference to Insight book to support 607BCE). Not a big surprise, as the arguments against them would have to be very shaky and may open the eyes of some on how many documents support 587BCE (versus none on 607BCE!!!). By not mentioning them it is like if they did not exist...
This is an interesting link to show how the WTBTS is forced to misquote scholars to support its chronology http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/111407/1.ashx
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Evaluating Raymond Franz
by greendawn inwhat do you think of ray(mond) franz?
i have seen here some people critisise him as not being a really heartfelt opponent of the wts, but my view is that he was quite honest about his expressed motives against the cult.
with his revelations he gave a lot of momentum to the ex jw movement (the apostate organisation according to the jws) and offered valuable assistance to those seeking to shake off the ideological and social dependance on the oppressive cult.
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jeanV
I ordered CoC from Commentary Press, reassured that it would arrive in a plain paper wrapping, had it mailed to my office, hid it in my locked desk and only read it in my office, door closed! What kind of religion inspires such fear in the hearts of its members (I was an elder at the time) that they feel they have to hide reading material?
sounds familiar ;) the funny thing is that if someone finds out and you get in front of a JC they will say that Jehovah guided it, since no one found out and some of us are still elders, what is the explanation?
In Italy ISoCF is rare , the editor stopped to print it out. But I have few copies , and whenever I can I address JW friends to read it.
I got CoC and ISoCF in Italian as word documents (downloaded from emule). If you are interested in the files just PM me.
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jeanV
attendance will likely increase due to the campaign with invitations.
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JW's ruin your sex life?
by NYerGirl inafter a year or so of being a "lurker" (since i know some of you despise that word, say, instead, window shopper?
), i finally signed up.
for the last week or so, i've come to the sight every day and i've learned a lot and also remembered more than maybe i wanted to.. so here's my issue: i've been married for 1 1/2 years, together with this man for 5+ years.
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jeanV
the answer to your question is yes, my sex life was influenced and in part ruined by jw's.
with regard to you, as other posters said, sex life is yours and of your partner, do not let anybody else interfere with it. it may be that you do not like some sexual practices because you really do not like them (and not because they are discouraged by JW). things can change. sex gets better with experience ;) also do not worry about watching some arousing movies (no hardcore porn, that is not sex ;) )
sex is not only physical, it starts in the mind.
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Why didn't someone warn me?
by slimboyfat inmy god i thought i was going to have a heart attack!
why didn't someone warn me there was going to be a talk on "how to identify an apostate" tonight?.
well i am just lucky the brother didn't mention the tell tale signs of firstly, clutching your chest at the surprise when you hear title of the talk, then grabbing hold of the seat like you are on a nose-diving airplane for its duration.
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jeanV
Why didn't someone warn me there was going to be a talk on "how to identify an apostate" tonight?
you don't look up frequently your yearly TMS schedule, do you?
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Will the WTBTS come to an end?
by pierogi incults come and go so do you think the wtbts will eventually come to an end?
i think about this sometimes and i wonder if i will live to see it.
the reason why i want it to end is because i don't like the administration.
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jeanV
Oh, I forgot to add this in my last post. Do you think the society would ever make up their own statistics or change them to make everything look good?
I don't think so. what they play with is the interpretation of the figures focusing only on the positive aspects.
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Will the WTBTS come to an end?
by pierogi incults come and go so do you think the wtbts will eventually come to an end?
i think about this sometimes and i wonder if i will live to see it.
the reason why i want it to end is because i don't like the administration.
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jeanV
Sorry, another question... What is 2014?
No claims have been made by the Society concerning 2014. However, just as the number 1000 (a millenium) has an impact on humans for no logical reason, so too does 100 (a century). The subconscious mind will cause many to say to themselves when that year passes uneventful,"wait a minute, wasn't something supposed to happen by now?"
exactly.
Why do you think the memorial 2007 will have an influence?
there is going to be another global campaign, invitations given out from door to door as it was done for the district convention invitation last year (and recently with kingdom news)! It is a way to keep publishers busy, active and excited (?!?), so away from thinking and doubting.