Posts by Paralipomenon

13

An Update!

by Bstndance in

jw
friends

for those of you that have followed my soap-opera on this board.... quick re-cap.

recently, my mom was threatened by the elders to stop associating with me or else.

i guess she feared i was becoming an "apostate".

Meh, why play by their rules?

They say you can't talk to her, and it's obvious she doesn't enjoy that thought. Just call anyways, avoid JW topics and carry on. Yes you are both adults, but shunning is so much harder when the other person doesn't play by the shunning rules.

Keep seeing her, let her avoid your calls or hide if you drop by. In the end she will only feel guilty and you can honestly have no regrets.

My sister did that to my mother after respecting being shunned for years. My mom still freaks out every once in a while and says they can't talk but my sister doesn't let it phase her.

To quote her: "I'm not letting some religion get in between the relationship I have with mom"

14

Oops, I gave my sister a Demon (twice)

by MeneMene in

first demon - - i sent my jw sister an email with some info about wts.

i just got a package in the mail from her.

course she disagreed with all the info but said her computer crashed right after she opened that email and she doesnt know if it can be fixed.

Paralipomenon

I was an avid comic collector when I was younger and my mom was convinced they were the work of demons. At first the rest of my family was quite sympathetic with her, but after more and more things were classified as "demonised" we eventually gave up.

One night my light is flicked on and I'm woken up, my dad is there looking quite tired.

"Your mother is having issues with demons again, have anything you can give me?"
I searched and handed him one of my lesser enjoyed comics and he went upstairs and ripped it up and threw it out in front of my mother. She slept fine after that.

My Dad's "cool factor" went up by ten that night.

36

Do you remember the first anti-JW site you visited on the internet?...

by Hecklerboy in

jw
friends

i remember doing a search on jw's and ending up on www.watchtowerinformationservice.org.

which led me to www.freeminds.org.

and then it led me here..

Paralipomenon

For me it was the newsgroup alt.religion.jehovahs-witn. I used to be a avid poster there back in 2000-2001 under a different name. I can't divulge it since it was tied to my real name and I'm not completely out yet. Very angry people there, alot more hardcore witnesses, mostly just ranting.

14

My story, concluded.

by Paralipomenon in

jw
friends

well it's been a while since i wrote the first two parts and this isn't so much a conclusion to the story because it hasn't ended.

it did not go good.

the kids have worldly friends .

Paralipomenon

On the flip side, one of the halls we went to had a library going back to the 1880's of watchtower bound volumes and the golden age. When the baby was fussy, I'd take it downstairs as a great excuse to read all these old publications.

One "Questions from the readers" from the 1890s asked CTR essentially if he would make the bible study group that subscribed to his newsletter into a formal religion. The answer was a blunt "no" because imperfect man had no place creating an organization on earth. The "Religion is a snare and a racket" makes alot more sense under the context that they didn't consider themselves a religion, rather students of the bible.

Russel was very flawed but I think he had his heart in the right place initially. Rutherford was the one that saw everyones cries for an organized religion as an opportunity and seized it. People need to be led and the dominate personalties assume that role. More often than not, those that crave power are the the ones least suitable for the responsibility.

Reading the archives on cult behavior by Lady Lee has been really eye opening. This flip between loving mother to paranoid cultist is a prime example of what she describes as "floating". I've ordered the book from Amazon but they say it could take a few weeks. I don't care if she stays in for her family, it's the whole point of fading. I just need to get through to her so she stays with her eyes open about how detrimental it is for the kids.

I did ask her about it and she said that we can just pay attention to their behavior and address the concerns at the school administration level.

Someone mentioned about me asserting my "head of the household" role. Honestly I never really bought into that. For me to play that card would be very transparent. We have always made major decisions together after discussion. We actually compromised that the kids would be allowed to go to the meetings or stay home if she was to rekindle her interest in the organization. I wouldn't pressure them to stay and she wouldn't pressure them to go. About holidays though she was very adamant that she didn't want her or the kids to have any part of it. This is just not something I can compromise on and apparently is a deal breaker.

She is open minded enough that she'll read the posts that I've created here. I'm just hoping that if she can read here and realize that she can fade without losing her family she might be more open to letting the kids be kids. The biggest problem is, she has nothing to replace her faith yet. If she abandons the JW's she has been taught she loses her life and the kids will die to. I understand that is a huge amount of emotional blackmail.

I'll try to point her to these forums tonight if it's appropriate and she might post herself. Or she'll leave me, not quite sure what to expect anymore. :(

14

My story, concluded.

by Paralipomenon in

jw
friends

well it's been a while since i wrote the first two parts and this isn't so much a conclusion to the story because it hasn't ended.

it did not go good.

the kids have worldly friends .

Paralipomenon

Well it's been a while since I wrote the first two parts and this isn't so much a conclusion to the story because it hasn't ended. My intent for posting was to write out my life and provide a link for my wife to read and perhaps understand. I'll fill in the blanks as best as I can.

I was just about ready to disassociate myself when a girl I had loved in a previous congregation came back into my life. She had been engaged but her finance cheated on her and the wedding was called off. She went to her grandmother's place which happened to be where I was currently living. We hooked up and I played the part of a faithful witness and we rekindled our friendship. I had grown up quite a bit since I had left my parents and also my religion. I was more confident in me. Finished college and got a degree. While in the organization I had miserable self esteem, I didn't initiate any relationships because I didn't feel I was good marriage material. When I was approached about "reaching out" for MS and elder responsibilities I was started to have my doubts.

The organization still controlled my mind so that I punished myself for lacking faith. But now was completely different. I was confident, started a career and independent. I knew it wouldn't work out long term but being perfectly honest here, I thought I'd hook up, have some fun and then move on to a more worldly girl. Okay, sorry women here, yes I agree that was a very bastardly thing to think. The problem was that we were really soul mates. We had been really good friends for a long time but never expressed any romantic feelings for each other. The more we talked, the more I felt bad for just wanting to use her. We dated for over 8 months and could talk forever.

The talks weren't goody two shoes witness conversations, we would discuss and debate hot topics and have philosophical discussions. The longer we dated the more I realized that I wasn't going to find a worldly girl that I enjoyed the company with more. On the other side I couldn't go back to the organization that I could now see as a headless monster.

Late one night I called her up and confessed my issues with the organization. I poured my heart out and figured that she could make the decision herself. While disappointed, she felt the same way I did about her and knew that she would never find a more compatible mate within the organization. We agreed to disagree and started planning our wedding. We went through the whole wholesome pre-marriage talk and lied a little bit about our dating practices. While we didn't have sex before we were married we did everything but. She was perfectly willing to start having sex before our wedding date, but I felt that the guilt after we got married would eat away at her. For the record, it's very, very, very difficult to say no to a woman you love throwing herself at you.

We got married and I attended meetings with her. I would do work for either the office or home finances while I was there. This went on for a few months then we got hit with the biggest shock of my life. She was pregnant. You know how the pill is 99% effective? Meet our son, I call him "one percent". This completely threw me for a bender. I was young, still new in my career, newly married and about to be a father. On one side it inspired me to climb the corporate ladder so I could afford to pay for my new family and was able to double my already decent salary within 3 years. We decided to bite the bullet and officially start our family and had two more children. In this time I just didn't have time or patience to put up with JW's anymore. I attended less and less meetings and hadn't been in service at all. We moved alot as I changed jobs and eventually our records got lost.

Slowly, without me driving us to attend my wife started to attend less and less. This was really great. We kept up the illusion with our parents (both sets are JW's) that we were regular and everything was fine. Over the past two years our children started attending school. Now I hadn't been to a meeting in forever, my wife had been to one or two and since our kids aren't used to sitting still for a boring talk they are very difficult to handle at the meetings. This was more or less ideal for me. We had faded and my parents, while strongly suspecting so (we are now assigned to their hall, lol) will turn a blind eye to our lack of attendance because they know if they shun me, there is no way in hell I'm letting them keep a relationship with their grandkids.

So this is perfect huh? Not quite. Now that our children are attending school my wife starts getting involved. She shows up at school and announces that we are witnesses and our children will not be participating in any holiday activities.

Remember when I mentioned my motivation for posting my story? This is why. I consider myself a good father. I look after them and am very involved in their life. A father only wants what's best for his kids. So now my children are about to get all the ridicule from being a JW, but are not actually attending meetings.

I thought that the perfect decision would be for me to disassociate myself and have her stay in. I could really care less about being shunned, we could let our kids do the holidays and she could keep a good relationship with her family. At this point we have many "worldly" friends that aren't emotionally draining on my wife. My kids are enjoying playing at schools with their friends while the witness kids shun them. Eventually they will see our hypocrisy and wonder why they couldn't enjoy themselves as children if we weren't really witnesses.

I was writing my story out for my wife and wanted to point her to it here to understand a bit more of my feelings. She is a very smart woman and I thought she might read through some other people's experiences and start to understand the organization for what it is. We had a few conversations over the years, but usually they ended with "you have your beliefs, I have mine".

So after posting part two of my story here I confronted her on it.

It did not go good. In the blink of an eye, I lost my confident, composed, intelligent wife and it was replaced with a die-hard dub. Holidays are pagan, it says so in the bible. I want to return to the meetings, I want to take the kids. Jehovah is the most important figure in my life.

I asked if it was more important than our children and our marriage, she said yes. We started to discuss how we would get divorced and I cried for the first time in 23 years.

I have my integrity and want to lead my children by example. She wants to retain membership in this cult to please her parents.

We don't attend meetings
We don't go in field service
We have a very healthy, non scriptural sex life
We have worldly friends
She buys our kids toy soldiers and toys with guns
They watch what they want on TV (within reason)
The kids have worldly friends
We actually enjoying playing an online game together that is very much frowned on by the society.

We are not witnesses. So why should we let our children experience the torment and ridicule that we experienced in school? So I am at a crossroad. I said we'd talk about it later and we dropped the issue. Since then she went to a meeting, but left early. So now I'm at a complete loss.

I love my wife dearly, we have one of the best marriages I know of. We are genuinely happy, but as the kids get older it will be harder and harder to maintain the lie. We will need to bite the bullet at some point. If I do disassociate myself, her parents will do nothing by try to drive a wedge between us. I don't want our kids to grow up and ask me why I didn't protect them from the abuse they took in school. I'm torn between being a good dad and a good husband.

This is where my story ends. It comes with more of a question and looking for advice from people that may have gone through this already.

Thanks for reading.

57

True Love in relationships

by captainl in

i think that true love is only found through jehovah.

i have had relationships in the world and they have never worked out.

but i will be searching for true love with a woman that also loves jehovah.

Paralipomenon

Really the media and entertainment sector pervert the sense of true love. You see a man and woman, deeply gazing into each others eyes, locked on and oblivious to the world around them. They label this true love and honestly it is chasing rainbows.

I would liken that more to lust and sadly many people get married out of lust. True love is sitting down with your spouse after years of being together and still enjoying talking to each other. It is staying together and doing things together because you really want to. It is being there when they are sick, when they are depressed and enjoying the highs and suffering through the lows.

If you are waiting for a feeling of euphoria to come over you like portrayed in the movies you will be sorely disappointed. You may feel that the love of a God is true love, but that is your love. True love is reciprocated in a tangible form.

That being said, I find it rather odd that you start talking about relationships then skip to the discussion of dolphins. What exactly are you looking for from this thread? Saying hi, asking for advice, looking for friends? It's not really clear.

6

Scans of the S-77 and S-79 forms...................

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

the ones used when someone is df'd or da's?.

anyone have them or know where i can find them?.

jeff .

Paralipomenon

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/110725/1.ashx

I was kinda curious too.

21

Sexual Details in Disfellowshipping hearing?

by Medic!? in

i couldn't find if this was a previous topic, so i apologize in advance if it has been posted.. i am 28 years old, i have been df'd for 7-8 of those.

my parents were converted when i was 2 years old by the whole family on my mother's side.

however, about 5-10 years into it, all of that side of the family were df'd or da'd because they wanted to have sex with multiple people or smoke, drink, gamble, cuss, or whatever else they wanted.

Paralipomenon

When I was in my early teens I stole a Playboy magazine. Got caught and had to set up a meeting with the elders.

Before the meeting my dad came in, he used to be an elder and started asking all kinds of questions about masturbation.

"Did you just rub it until it got hard?"
"Which hand did you use?"
"Did you do it over your pants?"
"Did you ejaculate?"

At this point I exasperated said that I didn't feel like answering these questions when my dad looking very distraught said:

"I'm just asking you these questions to prepare you, they'll be asking these questions, they HAVE to"

Waiting to go to that meeting was the worst thing I've ever expected. Once in it was a group of elders that liked me, they asked about me stealing the magazine, told me stealing was wrong and I got private reproof.

Guess they just like to hear about girl bits.