Posts by humbled

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

Hello,EP,

I am supposed to be carving sppons and finishing them for tomorrow's market. But I should say something in this thread because God answered me in a way that I have never been able to ignore or deny. I have had subsequent responses in the 35 years since that first experience. But there was a thing that happened one wintertime that alerted me that God was out there. I guess it is God. I prayed saying "God" and sometimes I would use "Jesus" because I didn't have a clear idea of the administrational aspects of Prayer. I still couldn't say. But they took care of it anyway.

I'll write a bit more later. Got to work for a bit.

259

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

by punkofnice in

when i believed in god i tried not to pray for anything selfish.. after a while i began to think that a lot of things i was asking my imaginary friend in the sky for were selfish for some reason.. i do not ever remember a single thing i prayed for ever being answered.

if there was the appearance of an answer it was because i did mental gymnastics to make it fit the delusion that god had actually answered me.

there was never an obvious message/answer from god.

humbled

God (or whatever heard me) answered a prayer of mine that I prayed for a few years. That event saved my life then and holding on to that experience saved me from dying a JW. It also has forced me to ever so slowly peel off the preconceptions I kept accumulating about God and Jesus, first just a little then after the Witnesses, a LOT. The fear of not having "accurate knowledge" doesn't worry me now. Not knowing the Bible is not a worry either.

Since I know something is there, I shouldn't be afraid to not believe things that I never even knew at the time God helped me.The help I got was when I had no bible knowledge at all.

I'll tell you what happened if you like. It isn't a short story, but since you asked a real question, I'd tell you what happened.

95

Introduction and a note on several posts here

by LizO in

hey people,.

as for myself, after extensive study i have concluded that it's not possible for me to trust the bible and so i am not active anymore.

however, let me please add something to the discussions here:.

humbled

LizO,

The naming of us as apostates and the DC talk on apostates with all the venom that the FDS conjures for us should be enough to enlighten you as to the honesty of the WTS.

Have you ever engaged with Brooklyn itself? When did you ever take your faith in the Bible and had a serious question yet, trusting in the integrity of the Organization, written with respect and sincerity for dialogue. Have you tried this? If you had you might find out in that process whether the WTBTS is honest in its dealings with the rank-and-file..

For many of us, trying to be honest ourselves, we were run over by the Corporation who then cornered us into a space that allows one to become a liar oneself or alternatively allows you to be named an apostate.

Welcome,LizO, but I think you got off at the wrong station.

You seemed to have had a pleasant time with the JWs. I had good friends there for 22 years, too, and I was a true believer while you just quit believing and slid away.

Since you actually never cared enough to raise your head above the trenches you didn't draw any fire and didn't get hurt. Alot of us here were treated badly and in a cowardly dishonest manner because we cared, because we believed.

It is hard to understand why you came here.

Maeve

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

As so many have validly pointed out, the bible is neither a moral compass nor a history of times past. It tells stories that attribute a lot of actions and motives to a divine being.

It isn't possible to believe these stories just as they are presented.

But that doesn't mean that there is no "something" out there. It doesn't mean that at all.

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

You are not correct on this, EP. The Slaughter of the animal was one action-- the slashing and the blood.

Olah, the ascent as smoke, the heavenward approach in which nothing was retained by the giver was the great afterward of this Abraham moment.

When the local elders told me that Abraham and God paralled each other , I could only ask if they read John 3:16 thus: "For god so loved the world that he killed his only begtten son..."

But if you, like them, would rather have the story go that the Monster Son-of-a-Bitch told Abe to do Isaac kosher, go ahead.

It doesn't fit. the writing department couldn't make it fit either. But some people are more comfortable with a nasty, tricky god that they can ignore.

I suspect that there is a being out there that is not well understood.

I don't trust the bible either, EP. So we are left to argue our prejudices, perhaps. Because you argue using it, too.

Jesus used it as well.

We are creatures of our time and place, a little bit. I can't help but think God is out there. I can't help but think Jesus had a connection. words get in the way.

It's 1:30 am here. I am really glad for this thread and glad for the discussion.

I hope you and your family are well, EP

and goodnight, tammy

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

The word zebach was never used in the entired account. In whatever manner Abraham "heard" God and told the story to posterity it was without the defining word that conveyed the slashing and bleeding of zebach.

I submitted to the elders and to Bethel that there is no grounds to say more than that Abraham struggled with the concept God gave him, misunderstood it.

Abraham only tried to complied and God commends him for his "listening". Listening to god doesn't mean we understand always. If God's ways are higher and his means and motives are strange to us--wouldn't it be hard to understand what he wants of us?

The Abraham story sprung me out of the Organization. I have to listen as best I can, too to God. Abraham had no bible. He had no organization. No one voted on the thoughts that rose up in Abe's head.

The stories are there and they are not.

There is the saying " if you meet the Buddha, kill the buddha".

The FDS liked their version of the Gen 22 story. Kill and burn the boy in their Bible story book. That is sick and not true. If Abe told the story using olah, burnt offering , it's because he learned what God meant. He wasn't tricked. He was learning a new concept and their was no word on earth to reflect it.

Religion and their words are always wrong.

269

Why does god kill children?

by Comatose in

i was thinking about all the accounts in the bible that indicate god kills children as a punishment or teaching experience.

1. kills all of egypts firstborn sons, who were innocent kids who did nothing to him or his people, who had no control over the decisions pharoah made.

how many times have you read that account or thought about it without realizing the devastating pain dealt to all those parents, and remembered those were innocent kids?.

humbled

Hello, cofty,

I hope you are well.

Respectfully, the scripture doesn't say "Kill your son" the story has God saying " offer your son as a burnt offering" to Abraham.

The Hebrew word for sacrifice, zebach, was graphic and bloody in its root.

The word for burnt offering, olah, was more spiritual and had no root connecting it to killing or to blood. In fact the two words are so different that they occur side by side frequently in the OT. They are by no means interchangable.

The story of Abraham and Isaac ( it has been said) has been left unedited by whatever person or persons who homogenized most of the OT . If in this God-story the Good One had told Abraham to kill Isaac then there would be nothing to discuss--ever--about the character of God. God would be a rotten, a tricky, lying SOB to his friend, Abraham. He would be no one to trust. It is the pivotal OT story.All the other stories can vanish and for me they largely have.

But in the interest of accuracy ir must be said that God never commanded Abraham to kill and burn his son.

Maeve

ps. thanks for kind thoughts on my bad day.

12

damm i miss jwd...this place will always be jwd to me...

by oompa in

jw
friends

thats all...except that five of my best friends are from jwd...so thats why too............oompa.

humbled

Sometimes it is the "small talk" that tells the whole story.

62

My mother continues with these creepy letters

by sosoconfused in

as i continue to post these letters just to let people see what they can expect through a fade, i hope they are not annoying anyone.. if so please let me know and i will no longer post them.

however i think these letters help you to see how cultish and crazy this religion causes people to become:.

evening <name removed>,.

humbled

Every word is calculated to devalue, condemn and undermine your every thought and action. There is no reasoning, no conversation. There is only pressure to conform.

She isn't giving up so easily.

Dude. Your beard? Keep it. After what she said it would always bother me if I lost it after her letter.

53

What exactly was going on after Jesus was put to death and no longer around?

by Terry in

the jesus believers were meeting in people's homes.

members of that community would take turns using private homes to gather.

thus, they went house to house.. these footstep tracers of jesus (they called themselves akolouthontes "followers" or some called themselves mathetai or "learners.

humbled

Starting at Mark 9:37 there is a clear indication by Jesus that there was no orthodoxy, no rules as the Churches abd GB would have us believe. It's a short read and if were a better typist, I'd type it. Have no way to copy and paste. Read it. Jesus didn't give a rats --- about in-crowd/out-crowd stuff. God love 'im.

Thanks for this post, Terry.

This place after he died is the place I live in now. It is very open and very personal at the same time. It is a Path.

Maeve