Posts by humbled

153

Jesus' Teachings - Helpful or Harmful?

by jgnat in

spinning off from another thread, have jesus' teachings been less than universally helpful to mankind?

how do we measure if a particular philosophy is helpful or harmful?.

i am going to use the "universal morals" listed here.

humbled

Cofty, I was raised with a fair amount of the conventional teachings of love, sharing and forgiveness. But as I lived my life I found myself no different from the pharisees who found ways to justify, rationalize selfishness behavior.

I valued love, sharing and forgiveness--don't get me wrong--but I was a leaky craft in these areas. Eventually I found myself sinking. Jesus' gave living examples of love, sharing and forgiveness that were far greater than I knew.

As for telling people to leave family to preach the good news? He had some who followed him literally as he went about (No time spent at work? At all?) But I noted a fair number of folks he helped just resumed their old lives: the Roman went back to soldiering, Legion was let stay in the god-for-sakenland of pig farmers to tell how well he was treated, the Samaritan woman went back to keeping house instead of "playing house", women healed went home, Zacchaeus went back to tax-collecting(honestly), the woman taken in adultery is turned free of sin to live wherever, lepers, demon-possessed children and parents went back home. Even we see this scenario continue in the book of Acts. Phillip raising his daughters, tentmakers Priscilla and Aquilla, Lydia the clothes-dyer, the Ethiopian eunach. What reason have I to conclude that they quit their jobs or occupations? None.

A man that convinced me that I didn't nearly understand LOVE lived as a British subject in the American colonies. John Woolman. Reading his journals showed me that Jesus' teaching--not Christian/church teaching-- redefines love, sharing and forgiveness that changed him and his society. He contemplated the implications and responsibility of Jesus' love, shared that with his fellow quakers in a modest yet thorough way-- when he wasn't being a tailor, tending his apple orchard or clerking in a country store--The Quakers subsequently understood that slaveholding(yes, they were slaveholder along with other pious americans) was contrary to divine love (as he called it). Divine love took him walking among native americans who respected him even as they despised other Europeans who only saw them as inferiors.

My life has been filled with extreme difficulties at times--some of my own making. Many times there was violence, guns, drugs and also less dramatic yet more personal and painful--and not enough money to grease things along. I was not equipped to deal with these things before I took the teachings of Jesus to heart. Others say there are other good teachings and teachers--fine--but Jesus has been good for me.

"I came not to call righteous persons but sinners to repentence."

40

New here, just wanted to say "Hello"

by Goldiver in

hello all, it is nice to have a forum for former jw's and see i wasn't the only one out there having serious doubts.

my parents got into it when i was about 4 years old.

my family was part of the granville ny congregation.. my dad in time became an elder.

humbled

Great to hear you broke free!

I'm glad when I know someone had the courage to get out. Glad you found a good partner, Goldiver.

Maeve in Arkansas

153

Jesus' Teachings - Helpful or Harmful?

by jgnat in

spinning off from another thread, have jesus' teachings been less than universally helpful to mankind?

how do we measure if a particular philosophy is helpful or harmful?.

i am going to use the "universal morals" listed here.

humbled

"Have Jesus' teachings have been less than universally helpful to mankind" would be a great discussion for me in a pub--with enough grog I might pretend that I knew the answer to that.

The second part "How do we I measure whether a particular philosophy is helpful or harmful?"with a list of universal morals-- I can tackle with a single beer .But can I go at this from a personal perspective and change the question slightly--and apply the measure to Jesus' teachings only?

Jesus helped me because:

He made it clear that I could understand him without some better educated person telling me what he was saying. Matt.23:8-10 That was the best thing. Because I was told in every Christian church that I couldn't.

He taught me that "good" women didn't need to stay barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. In fact he talked to them as equals of men.

He showed me that I could be cut off from the "regular church" and not be "wrong".

He gave me the tools to find and hold a clean conscience.

He taught me that I could fail and still come back.

He taught me how to love and how to forgive others. and my husband.and myself

He showed me that he trusted people that he healed or helped would build their own relationship with god--he didn't harague them with anything more than--"go and sin no more"

He showed me that revenge was always wrong.

He taught that loving other people was like loving the good/god/father.

He helped all kinds of people--including a soldier of the occupying army, and tax collectors, lepers, and other outcasts. and taught us that anyone who needed help--these were our neighbors.

He taught me that there are fates worse than death--like not living an authentic life.

He taught me that I might be kicked out of church for trying to follow him and that was okay.

He warned that there would be false prophets and told me how to sort it out.

And in the event I was called to produce evidence of my faith in him, it would be that I loved as he had loved.

Not doctrine. He said "do what I teach". that was the rock foundation.

Nothing he taught harmed me. I have wondered if he struggled in his religion like I did in mine. Was he a little crazy? maybe he was.

Was he original? I don't care.He was the holy man that was locally available when I needed one.

But he stuck to his principles to the bitter end. None of the heaven/hell stuff that folks wrangle about--and don't agree on--bothers me. He was plain in his teaching that had to do with earth. I figure that's all I have to account for.

What happens when I die is really beyond my control.

EDIT:I really don't worry that Jesus is going to rake me over the coals for not taking stuff in the epistles,Acts and Revelation to heart. It is hard enough to figure out what to believe in the gospels.

Thank you, Jesus!

Your friend, Maeve

P.S. It took 2 s.

39

The Christian Hope--Is it in Heaven or on Earth?

by DS211 in

so is the christian hope in heaven or on earth?.

in acts chapter 1the question was raised: 6 so when they had assembled, they asked him: lord, are you restoring the kingdom to israel at this time?

7 he said to them: it does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the father has placed in his own jurisdiction.. notice jesus never said thered be a change in venue, just that it wasnt up to them to know when..... so what is there from both sides?

humbled

Jeremiah 18:5-10,

I like what you said: the question can't be answered.

Everyone's earnest thought and study figuring out the hereafter doesn't add up to anything conclusive--It only seems relevant to live honestly and treat others well. If there is a life after, trust that a perfect court will find you not guilty.

65

How Cold is it Where You Are?

by PYRAMIDSCHEME in

jw
friends

with the polar vortex swirling further and further south and breaking records how cold is it where you are?.

.

here in gettysburg pa last night night we hit a low of -4 degrees but we were blessed with some wind that dropped the wind chill down to -22..

humbled

It's 31 degrees at 10:45p.m. here in N.W. Arkansas.

When it thawed some today one pipe thawed that had been frozen and one that was our outside pipe thawed but was broken! Water everywhere. I fixed it. The hardware store said a lot of it had been happening like that.

52

Theists - does your god DESERVE to be respected or worshipped?

by cantleave in

or should she abdicate for lack of action / leadership?.

humbled

I like your post, snare-- It is something I've been thinking about.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

(I'll know soon if the PVC fix holds up.Good fun. All muddy, but no water to clean up with.....)

Adamah--Not a "he" here. I ain't so young, but still-- I's a female the last I looked.

But to finish--

I suppose I am not a-- Christian, maybe not a believer. I can't say either the Nicene or Apostle's Creed without so many asterisks as to make a credo meaningless.

Cofty, It is immaterial to me whether Jesus was raised from the dead or whether he is going to rule over all things. What he taught, the jist of it --including the non-canonical gospels that have surfaced, is about love--and, yes the Golden Rule which allows self-love to reflexively teach anyone fundamental fairness.

The stuff that came after, the doctrines and rules, I don't believe he wanted that. It is slavery.

I do not know if I believe that Jesus has the power rule the natural elements, I don't know if he is alive in the way Christian doctrine teaches. But I still follow his teachings because I have a strong sense that he lives in a sense through his teaching--(I couldn't say his "spirit" was alive , could I?)--so I'll take my chances --even if he were really going to judge me.

Because the need for love and fairness is pretty much universal, it makes me wonder if THAT is not the "kingdom of god" Jesus is said to have preached--. Was Jesus reaching toward a Good that was hard to apprehend--even for himself? Did he realize a god (or Good it says in the gospel of Mary) that didn't fit the picture of the OT Jehovah? "He makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous."

I would feel really foolish saying these things if I didn't already know what a shambles the theologians have made of the Jesus story. And God.

I pray sometimes even if I don't know for sure if who or what is there. Even if Jesus is dead as a door-nail, he had the right ideas.

Jesus neither sent nor failed to prevent the tsunami.

Love and fairness is our problem to deal with ourselves.

Edit: Water working again! Nightmare over

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

Cofty, I am glad you brought up the Golden Rule.It is foundational to virtually all cultures in all ages. Not even original to Jesus or the Jews.

The god of theism has trouble fitting into the skin of Jesus. It was an uncomfortable fit for Jesus as well.

I suppose I am not a-------------(sorry gotta stop here , pipe brokewater spewing. will finish later. It froze.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

humbled

You said it true, EdenOne: no one can answer for God in the matter of suffering.

Even the one OT story comparable to the disaster of the tsunami (of the OT God showing mercy and giving warning before a (possibly?natural) disaster) was the Jonah story.

But in this case God sent a man to warn the bloody Ninevites of impending doom unless they repented. But even though in that solitary episode when God's mercy outshone Jonah's, the account only confounds us in the present discussion.

Jonah who wantedthe city destroyed, has God reprove him saying,"And for my part, ought I not to feel sorry for Nineveh the great city, in which there exist more than one hundred and twenty thousand men who do not at all know the difference between their right hand and their left, besides many domestic animals?"

Why didn't God do it Boxing day 2004?

The stories in the OT do not add up to a coherent whole so why wouldn't I struggle with the NT sories that people tell me grew out of it?

Eden, I personally have this dilemma: without buying any of the dogmas attached to Christianity, I still confess my own experience of Jesus' life that made a new person of me. I was "saved"--but without any hope of heaven. I was saved in a practical and real way that has given me and, by extension,those around me a better life. Jesus rose above the OT dogma.

Cofty, You have done me (maybe others) a service forcing a hard look at our biases. But I hope you allow that having established that the OT God teachings do not add up to anything you can hang a hat on you will allow that there still is the intrinsic need for love and fairness.

The universal currency of love and fairness is so imbedded that it is the cause of the outrage on this thread...

Where does that currency come from? I wish you would frame a thread along that line, cofty.

19

i finally had "the truth" talk with the hubby

by monis in

jw
friends

i have been inactive for a couple of years.

he has too, but wants to go back.

he has never researched anything about jws.

humbled

Let him marinate as someone else suggested.

And after a while ask him what have been some trying moments or troubling issues that seemed to conflict with his conscience. There will have been some--we just were taught to repress them.

Gently encourage the loving part of him to bond with you and the generous feelings that the WT represses in us:justice, openness, good fun, etc.

All the best!