Thanks for that, splash. It is a touching story, the shulamite girl's. That she would have loved the old man David and rejected Soloman's advances--Who knows the truth of any of it? But i like to think this was so.
humbled
JoinedPosts by humbled
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David and Abishag
by opusdei1972 in1 king david was now very old, and no matter how many blankets covered him, he could not keep warm.2 so his advisers told him, let us find a young virgin to wait on you and look after you, my lord.
she will lie in your arms and keep you warm.
3 so they searched throughout the land of israel for a beautiful girl, and they found abishag from shunem and brought her to the king.4 the girl was very beautiful, and she looked after the king and took care of him.
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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humbled
Dear Cold Steel,
Why do you call me an atheist? It was my defense of God's character that caused me to get thrown out of/leave the WT Organization.
My reason for rejecting the mainstream interpretation of God calling for a blood sacrifice of Abraham's Isaac as a test of faith was not based on a personal preference. It was based on faith that what God had revealed about himself was constant and true: God condemns human sacrifice, He does not lie, He does not test anyone with evil when he himself had declared that human sacrifice was evil.
That Jesus appealed to common-sense reasoning to the common folk to whom he preached was a powerful incentive to rejecting the illogic of God contradicting himself. I realized that there was a vast distance between myself and the scene of Genesis 22. I had to be as steady in my bible reading for me to be steady against elders like yourself, Cold Steel, that warned me that I was guilty of pride or stupidity or both not to yield to men of better minds and greater faith.
I had to trust that God would at least give me credit for not accepting the central moment of the OT and the basis for the NT would not be a total contradiction of all Jesus taught.
It took years of study and research into the development of written Hebrew, the manner in which the OT had been edited (Job and Genesis 22 likely untouched by that process), the discrete differences between the Hebrew words for sacrifice and burnt offering. It meant collating the instances in which they appeared side by side and individually in scripture. Yes, Cold Steel, It involved context.
Above all I looked at context.
Ultimately, I looked at myself in the context of religion. I saw that religion demanded that I must endorse a central precept of God that violated God's own descriptions of who the true God is. If I pretended to believe this I could not live my life with honesty. So I had to accept my own limited understanding of who god might or might not be and be honest with others about it. I had to have faith that I would not have to fear the wrath of God for this. I would in fact have to trust his mercy.
I believe that a wounded love is what holds life together, that suffers with us. I believe that we are burnt offerings that live within the smoke of a dark hope.
I do not believe in your god, Cold Steel. But this does not make me an atheist. It doesn't make me brilliant or stupid. It does make me honest. Not Thomas Aquinas, nor Hugh Nibley, nor Josephus, nor the apostle Paul can prevail upon me to believe a god of love said "Kill the lad."
Not even did the bible say it.
Maeve
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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humbled
Quoting Josephus and an LDS prophet is not kosher in this case, Cold Steel. And no one knows how God "spoke" to Abraham--the bible has no words adequate to convey how Abraham received the message at Genesis 22.
The word "sacrifice " is NEVER used in the passage. And there is a word specific for killing the creature being offered: zebach.
You do not understand that the concern is less about how Abraham behaved as about the behavior of God. God the not-liar, the not-wanting-human-sacrifice God, the I-don't-test-with-evil God.
There is a select canon of scriptures that are the single ground for digging up Christian religion's "Truth". Even the LDS church has to deal with the Bible to call itself a Christian denomination--even though LDS prophets use plenty of other extra-biblical sources that modify/qualify the Hebrew/Greek text.
As for Abraham being a type for Jehovah? "For God so loved the world that he killed his only begotten son."? No--it does not say that.
If it were possible for us to imagine a god who was trying to teach us to trust but not kill; a god who wanted us not to act according to a committee's vote but with stumbling faith then we might have held out for a more ambiguous and spiritual intent for this story's reason to exist.
There is no consistency in many of the stories. I do not think we are up to telling the story of god if there is one.
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David and Abishag
by opusdei1972 in1 king david was now very old, and no matter how many blankets covered him, he could not keep warm.2 so his advisers told him, let us find a young virgin to wait on you and look after you, my lord.
she will lie in your arms and keep you warm.
3 so they searched throughout the land of israel for a beautiful girl, and they found abishag from shunem and brought her to the king.4 the girl was very beautiful, and she looked after the king and took care of him.
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humbled
How would anyone know?
But she didn't have a child with him, at any rate.
Sad to think that she didn't have a child yet was not allowed to remarry after David's death. In fact, the man who asked to marry her was killed (1 Kings 2) as it was considered a move to usurp the throne.
She was simply a political pawn without any kids to drive her nuts comfort her in her old age. Sad.
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RIP at least the world didn't get him, words of comfort?
by MissFit into my grieving sister about the death of her only son almost 2 year ago.
he was 25.. we were having lunch when she repeated those words of"wisdom" from one of her jw in-laws.
this is a hard month for her.
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humbled
Any words that include "God" in connection with the death of a child or a youngster are not comforting.
where is the love? Even Jesus is said to have had compassion on parents who lost a child--and raised them to life--then and there.
I am sorry for her--I could only try to remember the good times......
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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humbled
designs--
explain the concept, please? I have no patience with theological constructs that provide extraordinary ethical allowance for deity. But I am ever curious to discover how different cultures and religions warp the minds of people around concepts that the common people are prevented from adopting themselves.
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Starting to wonder if I need organised religion.
by quellycatface in.
i do suffer from bipolar and social anxiety, so sometimes i do withdraw into myself.. what do you think?
am i just being weird??.
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humbled
Ever hear this?: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you......
Whether or not you deal with a psychological issue doesn't mean you must push yourself into actions that are not helpful to your well-being.
The comments above make sense to me. Do what nourishes your spirit without torturing yourself with rule/doctrine.
Find happiness where you can.
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God exists? God doesn't? God is a different concept? Convince me!
by punkofnice ini am in a spiritual void at the moment after a year out of the borg and 50 years in.. i'd like to hear 'brief' evidence for the existance or non existance of god/s without an argument between members here.. i'd like to get fresh view points as mine is now so critical it's telling me to be an agnostic or atheist.
why?
i am in want of evidence, not just words from a copy/paste troll & no links.. i just want to open up to new possibilities but with evidence to support it not just 'faith'..
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humbled
I'm glad read this old thread, Punky. I wasn't online at that time.
I love not only the topic but the tone, the temper of the discussion.
I still miss Tammy's voice if not her voices. A fine line that--maybe our ways of expressing and receiving spiritual concepts are too fraught with the problems peculiar to language itself for us be anything but firm AND kind in discussions of G-O-D.
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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humbled
Here was the sickest part of the Abraham /Isaac story as I saw it unfold when I dealt with the WT:
Even given that there was latitude within the Hebrew language of Genesis 22 for Jehovah NOT TO BE A SON-OF-A-BITCH, the local elders (of course not allowing themselves to think beyond My Book of Bible Stories) and the Corporation/Organization prefered that Jehovah be a psychotic monster as the video portrays him--
They could see that the language of the story did not include the word(zebach) for a throat-slashing slaying--that the concept-word exclusively in the account (olah) had a nuance that allowed for a totally different idea of the intent that did not violate subsequent element of doctrine. They did not disagree with the evidence or reasoning. Yet they were fixed on the scenario of a bloody, tricky god who violated his own stated principles.
I told them that it was impossible to worship a god who behaved as the one featured in My Book of Bible Stories.
So the cogs of the Organization went to work......and now---- here I am.
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The sick account of Abraham and Isaac!
by stuckinarut2 inthis has to be watched!!!
so thought provoking!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvcc8ui3cm&list=pl7420408e36541da4&index=2.
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humbled
Yes, stuckinarut2, incredibly sick. It is the very story that eventually got me out of the WT. I took i up wih the elders, who sent me up to the CO, and then I had to put it before the Brooklyn crowd.
I have the transcript of the whole year of it before I da/df in the JWN archive.
Maeve