Posts by fifi40

Have there been negative results.............probably, actually almost undoubtebly yes...........I think the panic attacks I have suffered with on and off throughout my life are to a large extent a result of having my head filled with fear based doctrine, but I understand that better now.

But I also think there have been positive benefits.............I think the whole experience, of being indoctrinated to learning the truth about the truth, has aided my compassionate side and understanding of what makes people behave the way they do.

To me there is no point in doing bitterness, hate or regret..........in the words of Forrest Gump 'Life's a box of chocolates; you never know what your going to get'. And in my own words 'Life is short, so find a way to make it as sweet as possible and try not to dwell on the bad stuff that it is inevitable we will trip across at some point on the journey'.

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

fifi40

Perry

Can I remind you of the conversion of Paul, who despised christians and then suggest you keep your judgements to yourself and allow the God you have faith in (if he should exist) to do all the judging that there is to be done.

You have accused Terry of

1. Not having the truth in him

2. Being from his father the devil

3. You accuse him of lying.

4. Of being an atheist troll

5. Of being a reprobate

You make a mockery of what a christian is supposed to be with your unsupported accusation. You know nothing of this man and yet you stand as his judge. And yet the very book you use to support your beliefs condemns a man for doing this. Who really is displaying the characteristics of a hypocrite here?

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

fifi40

Perry

Whilst experience has taught me that Terry is more than capable of defending himself I cannot personally recognise the person you describe him as.

Firstly he has never claimed to be an atheist but has rather described himself as an agnostic. He was raised by god fearing adults who installed a respect of the divine in him and later became involved wholeheartedly in the JW religion to the point where he was prepared to serve time in jail for his conviction. Now he works in the religious section of a book store and I would think has digested more books on various religious thoughts than the rest of us put together. All of this information you can obtain by reading his posts and threads.

Whilst I am not always a fan of the style in which Terry is capable of attacking a subject, I do see that he is trying to cause people to think and to question for themselves. Having been duped himself at one point I think he is almost passively angry at sytems which control people's thinking and enthrall their minds with what he considers to be junk. I dont believe he attacks individuals but rather the way in which they allow their minds to be controlled. He doesnt want wishy washy answers; he wants meaty answers that can satisfy his question. He wants the real thing.

Truth be known, if you asked Terry I bet he would love to believe in a God whose plan is for mankind to be redeemed and to live happily and peacefully. Its just that the evidence he see's does not support this theory. And yet he asks those of you who do believe to answer his doubts, his questions with sincerity, evidence and truth. If he can run rings around you and rip apart your answers then maybe it is you who should be questioning your own belief system.

Either way describing him as a 'atheist troll' or 'as being from his father the devil' does little to find a common ground upon which to draw any conclusion, and does not shower you in the soft glow of compassion and love one would expect from a follower of Jesus Christ.

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

fifi40

Perry to quote Henry David Thoreau

"Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not the fish they are after"

This could be compared to you and your approach to your 'God belief obsession'.

Why do I say this?

Because the bible informs followers of Jesus or God to follow in the footsteps of Jeus; to teach others and to display the fruits of the spirit. To remind you they include 'love, joy, peace, long suffering, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS,faith, MEEKNESS and self control'. 1 Corinthians shows how love 'does not parade itself' 'does not get puffed up' 'does not behave rudely' 'does not think evilly'. Colossians emphasises the need for christians to clothe themselves in 'tender mercies, kindness,humility, a heart of compassion, gentleness and patience'

Jesus instructed his followers to be 'fishers of men' and from the above quotes from the new testament we see the attitude and demeanour required for doing this.

Throughout the pages of this thread it is difficult to recognise the qualities described in the new testament, abundant in yourself.

So maybe it could be said that 'Perry went fishing (for men) all his life without realising it was not fish (men) he was after.

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

fifi40

I have respect for people's own view point..............each is entitled to their own belief.

But when you start throwing out insults and telling posters they are from their father the devil you lose all credibility.

Your mind has been hijacked.

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

fifi40

R.Crusoe

Just to qualify, what I wrote are not my own personal thoughts but rather some kind of defense to the questions asked about 'Why God loved Man and on what basis'.

Me personally, I think I am an agnostic who wavers on being an atheist..............so I could more comfortably throw out a similar question to Terry's. I have a very difficult time of reconciling there being a God who loves man and yet stands by as mankind suffers in some truly dreadful ways.

But if there is a God and he claims to love mankind, how could we be accepting of this. What I wrote is the closest answer I could come up with.

I agree there are elements of contradiction, and this is why I remain and agnostic wavering on atheism.

384

A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

by Terry in

on what basis did god so love the world?.

the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

fifi40

I too am agnostic but were I a believer my answer would be something like this.

Firstly our view of God, our questioning of God and our criticism can only be done from the perspective of an imperfect human being. One which judges whilst imperfect, whose understanding is limited and whose opinion is tainted by our personal life experience. If there is a God who is responsible for the creation of all that we as humans experience, then his intelligence and undertsanding must reasonably be far superior to ours. So it is similar to a child in an infant class trying to comprehend the mind and method of a mathematical genius.

As for why he loves man in your inital post on this thread you said 'there is no rational or just basis for the love of man or mercy'. When has love ever been considered rational. We as humans love because we love..........it often has little to do with being rational.

Also as humans when we become parents it is usual for us to love our offspring with a 'we would give our lives' type of love. If our kids misbehave, get themselves into trouble etc we dont stop loving them but we may punish them or withdraw some privledge. If the results of their behaviour are taken out of our hands we might disagree/agree with what happens to them; we might feel sorry for them; it might break our hearts but the likelihood is we will still love them.

Can we as humans hate the actions of people we love?

Can we as humans punish those we love for wrongdoing?

Can we as humans agree with punishment given to those we love by outside sources?

Do we as humans ever withhold privledges from those we love?

Do we as humans ever love another human being that others choose not to love?

Does this mean God is or is not capable of loving man?

Terry if their is a 'God' then our only reference to him are books that men wrote; imperfect men at that.

How are any of us qualified to question a being, that would be by the very evidence of what it is alledged he has created far, far superior in every way to us and expect to be satisfied with the answers?

65

KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE between what is real and what isn't.

by Terry in

the reality of our life stands in stark contrast to the imagined.. we can imagine whatever we like.

but, life intrudes.

and, by life--i mean the unavoidably real events we cannot wish away.. each of us is capable of avoiding unpleasant thoughts.

fifi40

There are things we know about and understand; and there are things as humans we do not know about and as yet do not understand. This has been the way since the beginning of man's time.

This is in fact one of them; how man got here, we dont know.............so some choose to speculate and may invest more of their time speculating and may even believe their theory. Reality is at this point in time we do not have the answer.

Could this change; could we learn the answer of how man came to be one earth, yes.

If you are talking about a table being a table, or what type of wood it is made of then you can obtain the truth...........if you are talking about things that we do not have conclusive answers for then how can you present a truth or reality.

If someone personally experiences something then they can be convinced of it............just because we have not experienced it does not mean it is not reality.

If someone is convinced they talk to spirit beings you cannot prove this is not true, you can only say you have not had that experience........If someone says they have had some type of religious experience again you cannot disprove this, you can only compare it to your own experience.

You are right in that reality does no alter............things are as they are, regardless..........it is our perception of reality that can change with new information and becoming aware of things we were once ignorant of.

101

IMPORTANT: JWS and the CHARITIES COMMISSION

by Dansk in

jw
friends

dear all (especially those in the uk),.

following on from danny's excellent post here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/128626/1.ashx i have just sent an e-mail to the charities commission.

some time ago i wrote to you about the dangers of jehovah's witnesses and how they don't deserve charity status because far from helping mankind they are a real danger to it.

fifi40

Sad Emo

I doubt it..................CRB's cost £58 for each person and take about 6 - 8 weeks to process (that is for a full CRB check)......I have never heard of elders having to have this done......my brother is an elder........I just cannot imagine that all eleders have had them.

Fi