Fisherman, it's you who does not understand this religion, it's people like you who helped the Sisters and Children in all sorts of Countries get raped and killed because you force people to follow a religion that inflicts a cruel mental torture, promotes family destruction, brings about a mind-numbing state of confusion. Watchtower also is the best a splitting scriptures by twisting their simple original meaning from the Gospel message, in to some convoluted Pharisaical system of beliefs that's finally falling apart because it's wicked! The easy idea that "Pledges to National loyalty" is a form of Nationalism can't be refuted, nice try at trying to debunk the obvious truth. Next time around you might consider joining the Scientology Movement because they are also good at making people obey and believe the most insane stuff!
RoyalFlushPhil
JoinedPosts by RoyalFlushPhil
-
160
"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"
by Alive! ini've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.
really?
and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..
-
-
-
160
"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"
by Alive! ini've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.
really?
and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
Marvin goes on to show further the insanity of this position you claim we are all ignorant of!
"Jehovah’s Witnesses have lost employment because they understood a tenet of their religion is that it is wrong for Christians to pledge the oath of allegiance, and accordingly they refused.40, 41 Employers have been forced to pay monetary awards to Jehovah’s Witnesses when these have lost employment or employment opportunity for refusing to take the oath as a central tenet taught by their religion. For example, in the early 1990s two Jehovah’s Witnesses, Lanell Bessard and Tanella Bridges, successfully sued the California Community College system. They were refused employment because they objected to signing the oath of allegiance. UPI news service reported that a federal jury awarded the two women nearly $260,000 in damages.42 A central premise of their lawsuit was that the California employer conditioned employment on an oath their religion prohibited them from taking.43 Yet the wording these Jehovah’s Witness plaintiffs objected to is specifically found in the oath of allegiance that presidents of Watch Tower pledged without any mental reservation. In the small African nation of Malawi Jehovah’s Witnesses experienced national expulsion, rape and murder because of their belief that they “can give their allegiance only to Jehovah God and his Kingdom.”44 The religious position taught by Watch Tower to Jehovah’s Witnesses is not all it seems to be. When leaders need a passport it is acceptable for them to pledge the oath of allegiance to the United States. When young children are in school it is unacceptable for them to pledge the oath of allegiance to the United States. In the landmark Barnette v West Virginia State Board of Education, Jehovah’s Witness leaders offered an alternate pledge for children of Jehovah's Witness. This alternate pledge reads: “I have pledged my unqualified allegiance and devotion to Jehovah, the Almighty God, and to His Kingdom, for which Jesus commands all Christians to pray. I respect the flag of the United States and acknowledge it as a symbol of freedom and justice to all. I pledge allegiance and obedience to all the laws of the United States that are consistent with God's law, as set forth in the Bible.”45
-
160
"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"
by Alive! ini've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.
really?
and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
Marvin Shillmer's research in to this topic shows how easy the witness mind is to confuse, not very hard to confuse people use to a low-protein Bible nutrition diet. Cults were notorious making their followers have as little protein as possible because it reduces the brain's ability to sort through fact and fluff. JWs don't know the Bible, if they did, they would not have any affiliation with enemies of Jesus Christ! Fisherman it's not me who is ignorant of the facts, how come those in Mexico were signing the "Military Cards and joining it" while those in Malawii could not sign something less demanding than documents sighed by the Watchtower's Leaders and Mexico's Witnesses who joined the Military?
"From the late 19th Century until the 1970s leaders of Jehovah’s Witnesses were pledging the national oath of allegiance to the United States government. It is paradoxical to pledge allegiance to a country and at the same time claim not to. Jehovah’s Witnesses have asserted that they refuse to pledge allegiance to national governments, yet this is precisely what Nathan Homer Knorr, president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, did on multiple occasions on his personal passport applications.26 Historical records document that other Watch Tower presidents also took the same oath of allegiance.27, 28, 29 Watch Tower literature draws a distinction between full and relative allegiance to national governments and laws.30 Since in terms of allegiance the national oath carries the same weight as—if not more than—the pledge of allegiance to the U.S. government routinely offered by children in schools it leaves one to wonder what makes one offensive and the other not?31 Watch Tower leaders have asserted a strong position against pledges of allegiance to governments, referring to such pledges as a Devil inspired scheme.32 Quoting Daniel P. Mannix, Watch Tower literature states, “Christians refused to . . . sacrifice to the emperor’s genius—roughly equivalent today to refusing to salute the flag or repeat the oath of allegiance. . .”33 Jehovah's Witness leaders have applied these words to their followers, making a show of abiding by them. However, again noting that Mannix cites the oath of allegiance as a modernday rough equivalent to sacrificing to Roman emperors—an act of worship—one cannot avoid the fact that leaders of Jehovah’s Witnesses were pledging the oath of allegiance. Jehovah’s Witnesses have identified taking national oaths of allegiance as acts of worship, as “religions” and “religious expression.”34, 35, 36 If we accept Mannix’s statement, as the Watch Tower Society apparently wants its readers to do, or if we accept the religion’s own statements, we are forced to conclude Jehovah’s Witnesses’ leaders engaged in a form of contemporary Emperor worship and/or idolatry. The rank and file of Jehovah’s Witnesses has taken a decidedly different position than its leaders. Rather than taking the oath of allegiance to national governments, rank and file members have been willing to suffer harsh deprivation and severe persecution, including rape and murder. It is well known that beginning in the 1930s children of Jehovah’s Witnesses were a primary focus of persecution for refusing to salute the flag and/or to pledge the oath of allegiance in schools.37, 38 Today young children of Jehovah’s Witnesses are still exposed to ridicule from peers because, as instructed by their religion, they are taught by their parents to refuse to pledge the oath of allegiance or to salute the flag in school.39 Page 3 Jehovah’s Witnesses"
-
37
Seems very easy to leave now, why do people hesitate?
by Xanthippe inwhen i see people on here saying they've looked on several sites before this one, jwfacts, jwstruggle, youtube, etc., and then they make friends here, sometimes meeting up with ex-jws, it seems incredibly easy compared to leaving in 1989. .
no internet, no amazon to find ex-jw books, no facebook to link up with ex-jw groups.
still people find it so hard to leave.
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
It's not that simple, people need something besides facts to waken up their minds, having known elders who don't believe all the Watchtower's teachings and claim of being the "one and only true religion" make's it that much more difficult for the regular or limited knowledge witness.
The founders of some websites tried to show their family members the truth about the truth only to have them say "Even if I am wrong, "I will know in my heart we are the closest to true religion there is, my life was not in vanity!".
-
160
"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"
by Alive! ini've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.
really?
and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
Outlaw he's ducking and dodging the question and proof you showed him, it's classic JW Argument tactics, I really am surprised he did not tell you "I will go research this topic and come back to your house with satisfying answers explaining a good reason why we did this!" The Classic line JWs use when they know their stuck or feel this householder is too smart so they go looking for Joey the Janitor whose about to go to sleep and get some Field Service time. He's using the same reasoning done for the "Cartilla' and the official line why the Watchtower joined the United Nations, they said 'we had to join the UN so we could gain access to their library!"
We were told not perform the Flag Salute! Never because as Jehovah's Witnesses we don't pledge our allegiance to anyone but Jehovah God, under no circumstances would we put our right hand over our heart or sign anything Outlaw posted! How can you say the Watchtower's Twisted Scriptures that change so often have any foundation in those books that remained constant for close to Two Thousand Years now! Some Hebrew Books of Moses date back almost 3600 years and they don't change like Watchtower's Play-dough doctrines some which have caused people to die, others left the bulk of the Witnesses in Poverty without any means of support. The Watchtower is responsible for all their members who are begging off the kindness of the Tax Payers to pay their way because they did not pay any taxes in to the Government (Circuit Overseers who head down to the Social Security Administration need to be told "Go to Hell, you never did any good for this World, you get $600 from the Watchtower so beat it!).
You find us a Kingdom Hall that treated everyone equally (James 2) without judging each person's physical gifts such as money, skills and outward spirituality (1 Sam 16:7).. Why is the "churn rate" so high in this Organization if it had Jehovah's backing, the prophets said one day there would be a spiritual place bringing about change, men who would help locate the sheep and untangle weeds wrapped around them through Angelic help, the Angles would locate them while sound of Truth rung loudly waking them up!
Romans 2
2-15 He will punish sin wherever it is found. He will punish the heathen when they sin, even though they never had God’s written laws, for down in their hearts they know right from wrong. God’s laws are written within them; their own conscience accuses them, or sometimes excuses them. And God will punish the Jews for sinning because they have his written laws but don’t obey them. They know what is right but don’t do it. After all, salvation is not given to those who know what to do, unless they do it. 16 The day will surely come when at God’s command Jesus Christ will judge the secret lives of everyone, their inmost thoughts and motives; this is all part of God’s great plan, which I proclaim.
17 You Jews think all is well between yourselves and God because he gave his laws to you;[c] you brag that you are his special friends. 18 Yes, you know what he wants; you know right from wrong and favor the right because you have been taught his laws from earliest youth. 19 You are so sure of the way to God that you could point it out to a blind man. You think of yourselves as beacon lights, directing men who are lost in darkness to God. 20 You think that you can guide the simple and teach even children the affairs of God, for you really know his laws, which are full of all knowledge and truth.
21 Yes, you teach others—then why don’t you teach yourselves? You tell others not to steal—do you steal? 22 You say it is wrong to commit adultery—do you do it? You say “Don’t pray to idols” and then make money your god instead.[d]
23 You are so proud of knowing God’s laws, but you dishonor him by breaking them. 24 No wonder the Scriptures say that the world speaks evil of God because of you.
25 Being a Jew is worth something if you obey God’s laws; but if you don’t, then you are no better off than the heathen. 26 And if the heathen obey God’s laws, won’t God give them all the rights and honors he planned to give the Jews?27 In fact, those heathen will be much better off[e] than you Jews who know so much about God and have his promises but don’t obey his laws."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+2&version=TLB
-
160
"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"
by Alive! ini've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.
really?
and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
kaik, if you watched the May Monthly JW Broadcast they used the name of Jesus only to bring up how he pointed to a widow that gave her last few coins. This was 33 minutes in to their broadcast, I counted Stephen Lett saying Jesus once and that was not to praise him or mention his glorious position in Heaven. JWs worship Jehovah's Organization because that's all this video talked about, they despise Jesus Christ while reading any book in the New Testament you can't go through a chapter without Jesus being mentioned.
Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians, to many of it's members he is a inconvenient truth, we have members here on JWN that started using the name of Jesus Christ only to have the Elders started talking to them, Witnesses begin watching and marking them for obeying the Bible. The Apostles prayed to Jesus Christ, the ancient Church Father's have prayers to Jesus written down, where does Jesus Christ find a role in a religion that's so hung on showing off it's worldly works and iconic buildings and bragging titles?
Jehovah's Witnesses preach a false gospel (Galatians 1-2), they are anti-Christs running around pretending to give Jesus his dues but their lives don't reflect they belong to Jesus Christ. JWs are the most confused religion because their believers don't know what they teach and members who lost touch with them over five years would come back to a entire new religion. No other religion has done more 180s on Bible interpretation and epistemology than the Watchtower, even the Mormons stopped their madness decades ago while the avid JW looks forward to how the Governing Body's writers are going to throw a wrench in their current dogmas!
Searcher, I have a great video on the historical Jesus Christ, it's the best one to date I've come across, new material I did not know!
-
160
"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"
by Alive! ini've noted active, devoted jw's state the above.. and, it's not a problem for me to remain trusting of god, i just don't trust religions or men.. recently, a member of this forum stated that he remains an active jw, in the family of god's people, wanting to encourage and do good - whilst recognising that the pastoral leaders (the gb) have shipwrecked the faith of many, being unsound scripturally etc, etc.. stop and think about this - the bible says to not follow after those who lie and hurt the faith of "little ones".. the pharisees were accused of traversing over lands and expending much energy to make a single convert - only for that convert to end up worse of than he started off with.. it's one thing to not believe this is the 'truth' and feeling the awful pressure of managing ones life, trying not to lose ones family.. it's quite another thing to declare oneself to be a christian believer of god's jw household, and somehow believe the god of love would use corrupt liars to parade as jesus' brothers in the urgency of last days.
really?
and, to then visibly promote faith in corrupt men, and try to bring converts into a place where the rulership is wrong.. some of us are dying from hurt here.......give me a break..
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
What's scary is after reading the historical truth about the Watchtower Organization and it's origins some are debating it became corrupted as if it was once uncorrupted. What's the standard we are using making claims this religion is superior to any other religion since each group of Christians can make certain doctrines the Watchtower teaches as original look invalid through their scholarly articles on subjects dealing with the Bible.
Jehovah's Witnesses and The Bible Students never had the Truth, it's a indisputably fact! The Bible said in "In the Last Days" God would gather people together and learn about him in truth, not error, false prophecy, ruined lives and money grabbing plus Idolatry of the Governing Body who threw Jesus Christ out of their Organization by attacking anyone who uses his name more than the Governing Body or "The Organization". Jehovah's Witnesses writing for the Watchtower are now equating the Governing Body as Jehovah and "when you obey the Governing Body, your obeying Jehovah or it's the same as obeying Jehovah!"
When the Eastern European Jehovah's Witnesses finally made contact after two decades of religious oppression they were shocked by the twisted truths and bedfellow of the UN and Governments the Watchtower USA became, Romania and many other East European JWs Excommunicated the United States Governing Body for Apostasy! They teach the United States Organization is the "Unfaithful Evil Slave", so confusion is nothing new among people of follow a group of glory seeking Pharisees looking for new converts to make "twice as worthy for Hell!".
-
13
Eighty-Four year old drives her disfellowshipped son to meetings and sits inside Kingdom Hall.
by RULES & REGULATIONS ini have a customer who's son is a jehovah's witness.
he was disfellowshipped over a year ago.
this is the second time he's been disfellowshipped.
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
Sounds like so many JWs who are heavy drinkers, do drugs but something about having sex makes them come forward and confess their sins to the Elders, never mind they leave out snorting coke, banging heroine, Ice and smoking weed. Why does having sex bother them when substance abuse and porn don't, weird people.
Also why do they dis-fellowship people for drinking or fighting, if Jesus Christ forgave Peter who cut the ear of Malchus (the High Priest's slave) why can't the Elders who are in Jesus Christ's hand forgive them?
-
18
May 2015 JW Broadcast, "The Watchtower Has The Most Multilingual Speakers in the World? True or False?
by RoyalFlushPhil instephen lett about 33 minutes in to may's "liar liar" episode of the monthly worship broadcast said "jehovah's witnesses have the most multilingual speakers of any organization in the world!".
the catholic church has the most people i thought, do you think he's telling the truth and where is he getting these facts?
i finally broke down and decided to watch this in order to work on my reverse witnessing skills, lots of ammunition for anyone needing fuel to extinguish their dirty flames of lies!.
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
Stephen Lett about 33 minutes in to May's "Liar Liar" episode of the Monthly Worship broadcast said "Jehovah's Witnesses have the most Multilingual speakers of Any Organization in the World!". The Catholic church has the most people I thought, do you think he's telling the truth and where is he getting these facts? I finally broke down and decided to watch this in order to work on my Reverse Witnessing skills, lots of ammunition for anyone needing fuel to extinguish their dirty flames of lies!
-
1
Google's Number 5 Hit for "Jehovah's Witnesses", UK News "Who Are the Voices That Won't Vote" Election 2015
by RoyalFlushPhil inthe possibility the watchtower leaders get some kick backs because they keep their members from voting and giving a dam how politics and world events happen.. ".
on't vote.
jehovah's witnesses are among those who do not vote based on their religious beliefsjehovah's witnesses.
-
-
RoyalFlushPhil
The possibility the Watchtower Leaders get some kick backs because they keep their members from voting and giving a dam how politics and World events happen.
"
on't vote
Jehovah's Witnesses are among those who do not vote based on their religious beliefsJehovah's Witnesses
There are about 140,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in the UK who will choose not to vote on 7 May.
Mark O'Malley, a spokesman for the Christian-based religious movement, said: "As you go through the bible we see that God's kingdom is already established in heaven with God as the king of that kingdom.
"We are politically neutral as, in a sense, we have already chosen to support that kingdom's government. We see it as a real government.
"There are limitations to what governments can do, maybe they can improve the health system, but they can't prevent death, maybe they can help children, but they can't provide a secure future for them necessarily. Only God's government is going to be able to resolve completely the real, deeper issues."
Despite their choice to opt out of voting, Mr O'Malley said Jehovah's Witnesses were "model citizens", living their lives by principles set out in the bible which states "authorities that exist have been established by God" and to rebel against them is to rebel "against what God has instituted".
He said: "We take the Bible principle at Romans chapter 13 which tells us to support the superior authority.
"The bible highlights respect for
