Posts by glenster

4

Russell quotes about hell

by glenster in

can someone please provide some sources of quotes of russell's about hell as death?

i remember he tended to force the choice between agony in literal fire and death, and that a kind god would make it death, etc.

(i think an atheist might consider it kinder to go on living in apartness from god than be dead, but russell seemed to skip that possibility.).

glenster

A couple more interesting articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades_in_Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham

4

Russell quotes about hell

by glenster in

can someone please provide some sources of quotes of russell's about hell as death?

i remember he tended to force the choice between agony in literal fire and death, and that a kind god would make it death, etc.

(i think an atheist might consider it kinder to go on living in apartness from god than be dead, but russell seemed to skip that possibility.).

Russell quotes about hell

by glenster in

can someone please provide some sources of quotes of russell's about hell as death?

i remember he tended to force the choice between agony in literal fire and death, and that a kind god would make it death, etc.

(i think an atheist might consider it kinder to go on living in apartness from god than be dead, but russell seemed to skip that possibility.).

Can someone please provide some sources of quotes of Russell's about hell as death? I remember he tended to force the choice between agony in literal fire and death, and that a kind God would make it death, etc. (I think an atheist might consider it kinder to go on living in apartness from God than be dead, but Russell seemed to skip that possibility.)

Some articles which explain the mainstream Christian view of the soul and an
afterlife:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/insight.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian_beliefs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul#Christian_beliefs

5

Rutherford's Jesus shoots up perfection

by glenster in

1920 [summary: intravenous drug use would become common during the millen-.

nium--it would be used by the christ (the 144,000 and jesus) to help mankind be-.

come perfect and free of all diseases] ("the golden age," march 17, 1920, p.808).

glenster

Thanks for the evidence. Things get slanted on this one way or the other sometimes, and I don't see any need to. I'm getting a pretty consistent picture about the JWs leaders when it comes to them making their 144,000 exclusiveness and distinctive rules sound sure-fire without the writer I quoted needing to exaggerate with editorial. I see where they got the idea about intravenous medicine, and they have a basic point that the Bible intends ideas about God, not medicine, providing a better time to come, though.

The most unusual thing about it is that I thought the Golden Age was mostly against the medical profession. Oh, wait--I read it again. He's suggesting you inject something to increase white blood cells to combat the flu. Things are back to normal.

5

Rutherford's Jesus shoots up perfection

by glenster in

1920 [summary: intravenous drug use would become common during the millen-.

nium--it would be used by the christ (the 144,000 and jesus) to help mankind be-.

come perfect and free of all diseases] ("the golden age," march 17, 1920, p.808).

glenster

The quote sounds like a more ordinary guess about the possibilty of medical advances. Is there more about the context that explains why the summary gave other specifics--referred to intravenous use, etc.?

8

144.000 and their biblical facts

by Marcel in

i always wondered how all the facts about the 144.000 written in revelation are discarded by jws.. i would like to know how the wts talks all these things away that doesnt fit their doctrine.. .

(revelation 7:4) .

.and i heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of israel:.... (revelation 14:1) .

glenster

Replacement theology is also called supersessionism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersessionism

The choice of a literal 144,000 in the Watchtower was started with Russell--he claimed just him and whoever agreed with him was going to rule the Earth from heaven (see the opening of "Pinky and the Brain").

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPFSNu_QNs

60

1933 Letter from JW's to Hitler and Nazi Party

by kwr in

i was watching one of the extras on the knocking dvd and a woman commentator talked about a scandalous letter from the jw's to hitler and the nazi party in 1933. does anyone know where i can read this letter at?.

tia.

.

glenster

All I've found so far are otherwise are references--see about 1/2 down on this page ("Witness literature contains...."):
http://www.baycrest.org/If_Not_Now/Volume_2_Spring_2001/7135_7337.asp

The story on the Pope through the period looks a little more complex than
Rutherford's "144,000"-centric propaganda indicated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler%27s_Pope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII

http://www.randytv.com/Hitler/beyond_revisionism.htm

5

Rutherford's Jesus shoots up perfection

by glenster in

1920 [summary: intravenous drug use would become common during the millen-.

nium--it would be used by the christ (the 144,000 and jesus) to help mankind be-.

come perfect and free of all diseases] ("the golden age," march 17, 1920, p.808).

glenster

1920 [Summary: intravenous drug use would become common during the Millen-
nium--it would be used by The Christ (the 144,000 and Jesus) to help mankind be-
come perfect and free of all diseases] ("The Golden Age," March 17, 1920, p.808)
http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/index.php/watchtower_quotes/medical-science/drugs/

That's weird, but I guess some had high hopes for how much intravenous medical
practices would cure things. Does anyone have the full quote?

60

1933 Letter from JW's to Hitler and Nazi Party

by kwr in

i was watching one of the extras on the knocking dvd and a woman commentator talked about a scandalous letter from the jw's to hitler and the nazi party in 1933. does anyone know where i can read this letter at?.

tia.

.

glenster

Thanks for the Rutherford quotes!

Rutherford meant to include his followers among those persecuted and turn the
responsibility away from how he mishandled the situation and brought harm to his
followers. As with Russell's teaching, the "religionists" he equated with the
Pharisees of the time of Jesus' ministry on Earth were the leaders of Christen-
dom (meant disparagingly).

Rutherford may not have been in favor of facism for human government but
played false prophet with his cooked up "144,000" elitism. One irony is that
while he propagandized against Christendom, generalizations should refer to
what's mostly true, and most JWs were in the US where, there and elsewhere, more
Christians fought to defend against the Nazis. He had followers bash outsiders
with sound trucks (over-ruling 1 Cor.10:32-11:1), such as with a hope that all
who weren't in agreement with his specialties would soon be killed by God.

His listeners didn't miss the point that this was his arrogant contribution--
a condemnation of them when they were already too troubled fighting the Nazis.
One way his "144,000" elitism was meant to be established with expanded rules
about what "worldliness" means, and it was an especially expensive cynical scam
considering these indulgences put followers in harm's way unnecessarily, espe-
cially in Germany, from the safety of his mansion.

One exception to Rutherford's sympathy for Jewish persecution (or victims of
bashing generally):

1937 Regarding the Roman Catholic church: "Amongst her instruments that she
uses are ultraselfish men called ‘Jews’, who look only for personal gain, and
who therefore readily yield to and join with the Hierarchy in any unrighteous
schemes." ("Enemies," J.A. Rutherford, 1937, p.281)

The consistency I see is in bashing outsiders in a centric way.

After the Night of Broken Glass, Nov.,1938, German Watchtowers or Consolations began report-
ing atrocities against Jews in Germany. Does anyone have any other quotes from those?

60

1933 Letter from JW's to Hitler and Nazi Party

by kwr in

i was watching one of the extras on the knocking dvd and a woman commentator talked about a scandalous letter from the jw's to hitler and the nazi party in 1933. does anyone know where i can read this letter at?.

tia.

.

glenster

I've seen many of the anti-Semitic things in JWs publications. For balance, does anyone know a link to about 5 or 6 things they published in late '39 to '43 or so about the persecution of the Jews in Germany? (I remember they were kind of matter-of-fact, like the news made for a better way to criticize human government than badmouth the Jewish religion for the JWs leaders' prophecy pretensions.)