Posts by neverendingjourney

32

Government turning on religion - or - I how I learned to stop worrying and love Drumpf

by undercover in

jw
friends

where, exactly, does the bible say that government(s) will turn on religion?

i mean, other than interpreting some crazy visions/dreams from revelation as such?.

with one megalomaniac leading the gop race for nomination to vie for president of the usa, i've noticed that paranoia has ratcheted up a notch or three.

neverendingjourney

I remember threads like these back in 2008 when Obama was elected. Obama's election would somehow herald the coming of Armageddon, so the JWs were saying. The financial crisis...Armageddon. The Iraq War...Armageddon. The terrorist attacks of 9/11...Armageddon.

One of the earliest memories I have of knowing I had woken up and would never be able to go back to the "good ol' days" of blind belief was a conversation I had with a JW at an assembly about the 2004 tsunami. He was sure the end HAD to be right around the corner and he'd be able to see his recently-deceased mother again.

My blood started boiling at how he was trivializing the death of hundreds of thousands of people. That didn't matter. What mattered was that their deaths meant he'd be able to see his mother again soon. It wasn't about the people who died in the catastrophe. It was about him and his desire to see his mother again. A conversation like that would have previously gone unnoticed but it took every ounce of self-restraint I possessed not to dress him down publicly for his stupidity.

56

A fresh start

by FormerlySandL in

after the worst introduction i could ever make on the forum i would like to reintroduce myself and make a fresh start on the forum and hopefully over time i will be able to redeem myself.

i have changed my user name which was over dramatic and ridiculous in the cold light of day but for transparency and to show i am not trying to hide anything i have adapted the original name and it now has a more positive feel.

after reading a lot of posts on this forum i am feeling more optimistic about my future.

neverendingjourney

When I woke up 10 years ago, I didn't want to live any more. It took me a few years, but now being a JW is just another part of my past that informs who I am today.

I know it can be unbearable at times, but there's light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there.

51

Hello everyone. New here looking for info and friends

by Harvard Illiterate 411 in

i sometimes was redirected to this page from reddit or another ex-jw site but never bothered to sign up.

i wanted to stay off the radar but since i'm getting dis-fellowshipped anyways and have no plans to come back what the hell.

been 22 years in the truth........... ahhhh i hate to use that expression...... bad habit but you know what i mean.

neverendingjourney

I did believe it because it seemed like every week I was saying "the truth makes so much sense!" Well of course it made sense when the information you are using (Watchtower publications) is all cut and trimmed to fit their agenda

Yup. If all I ever was exposed to was Nazi propaganda, I'd be a good little National Socialist.

I compare it to one of those courtroom drama shows. After the prosecution puts on its case, everyone at home is ready to get the pitchforks out and hang the bastard. Until the defense starts to go through their evidence and all of a sudden you realize there's more to the matter than meets the eye. When you're a JW you only get halfway through the trial. You never get to hear the other side of it because, well, that would be apostasy.

68

Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Half banana in

what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

.

neverendingjourney

Some people just don't care if their religion is true or stupid, or if their policies are right or wrong, or even if their policies are just plain cruel. They just don't care if their religion's policies cause suffering and death. They just don't care if their religious leaders lie or what they do with donated money. They don't care if abuse victims are treated like sinners and abusers are protected by the silence of the elders. They just don't care. They're happy, so that makes it all ok.

I couldn't have said it better myself, honestly. You've distilled it down to its very essence in a few short sentences. Bravo.

68

Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Half banana in

what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

.

neverendingjourney

Now as to answer your "real question". The ancient Jewish faith was flawed but they were the chosen nation. No doubt surrounding nations thought them crazy and they probably warned their young ones of pitfalls. So the comparison to Christendom could very well fit today.

Here's the problem. If all religions are flawed, this reasoning will prevent people from changing beliefs.

Someone who's born a Mormon, for instance, would not make a change to the JWs because while his religion might be flawed, so are the Witnesses. It's the "where shall we go?" fallacy. Absent evidence of a lack of flaws in another group, the person will stay in their current group assuming it's the "chosen religion."

And it assumes there is such a thing as a "God's people" or a "chosen nation" to begin with.

Going back to your example. Maybe the ancient Jews made up a religion just like every ancient group of peoples did. Maybe Yahweh was just a mythical as Zeus, Krishna or Ra. Maybe the Jews were crazy and the surrounding nations were right to warn their young ones.

68

Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Half banana in

what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

.

neverendingjourney

So far nothing has moved me enough here to "make me an unbeliever". Thank you for your passionate effort though.

Nah, I don't really care whether you believe. Lots of people on this forum obviously do. That's their right just as it's your right to defend the Witnesses.

I wasted too much of my life trying to change people's beliefs. I'm just kind of over it on a personal level, to be honest.

The facts are out there. Surely you've been exposed to them being on this forum. There is no rational defense of this religion to be offered. Yet some people need belief to help make sense of the world. To each his own.

Just don't pee down my leg and tell me it's raining.

68

Why would anyone choose to support Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Half banana in

what is the point of supporting a belief which began as a bronze age ox-headed idol called yahweh... in a religion designed for illiterate peasants now appropriated by a money-driven cult with a one hundred and forty six year unbroken record of total failure of its bible based predictions?.

.

neverendingjourney

If I hold a diamond to the light I see the flaws. That doesn't mean it's not a diamond.

I hate, hate, HATE that illustration. Although to be honest, I hadn't given it any thought in years. It was oft-repeated during my time with the JWs.

Why do I hate it so much? Because it's rhetorical nonsense designed to distract and deflect from the real question.

For instance:

See flaws in JWdom? Well, that's just like flaws on a diamond that cannot be seen with an unaided eye. It's still a diamond.

See flaws in Chirstendom? Well, that's just like having a drop of poison in your morning tea. Certainly, you wouldn't drink it!

Manipulative, dishonest, devious horse shit designed to beat up the emotionally vulnerable and flip the argument back on them. The problem isn't the glaring flaws in the religion. The problem is with you for bringing it up in the first place.

30

Quality of JW teaching from elders

by sir82 in

jw
friends

there was a recent thread on the "quality" of converts to jws in recent years.

it wasn't a pretty picture, based on the thread contents.. well, the lack of depth isn't restricted to new converts.. in our clam this week, one of the principal points for review was this:.

ne 1:1; 2:1—why can we conclude that “the 20thyear” mentioned at nehemiah 1:1 and 2:1 is countedfrom the same starting point?

neverendingjourney

The acorn (elders) doesn't fall far from the tree (WT leadership). Buffoonery has always been an intimate part of the the JW fabric.

If the organs [of your body] are diseased, heal them by correcting your diet. Avoid the use of aluminum cooking utensils and alum baking powders as they are injurious to your health, poisoning your blood stream... Sleep on the right side or flat on your back, with the head toward the north so as to get benefit of the earth’s magnetic currents. Avoid serum inoculations as they pollute the blood stream with their filthy pus.... Stop chewing gum, as you need the saliva for your food.

The Golden Age, Nov. 12, 1929, p. 107.

The unburied dead, "those slain by Jehovah," will be so enormously many that even the carrion birds and scavenging wild beasts could never take care of their consumption. The burial of even what remains after these lower creatures have their fill would be stupendous. Doubtless the Almighty God will use some highly scientific means, whether including antimatter or not, to dispose of the surplus of decaying bodies in a speedy and sanitary way

The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah" -- How? (book, 1971) pp. 376-377

8

Watching from the outside - and a question at the end if TL;DR

by unfamiliar in

i grew up in a jw family.

i was the youngest, and i never really felt like my questions were answered in a satisfying way, so i kind of gradually faded and i was thankfully never baptized (hooray for me).

i kept going to family study time until i was about 27 (!

neverendingjourney

From the WT book "Children" published in 1941, pgs. 366-367:

Armageddon is surely near, and during that time the Lord will clean off the earth all that is disagreeable. Then, by His grace we shall begin our life with a greater vision, and prolonged joy...From now on we shall have our heart devotion fixed on the THEOCRACY knowing that soon we shall journey forever together on the earth...We can well defer our marriage until lasting peace comes to the earth. Now we must add nothing to our burdens, but be free and equipped to serve the Lord...Eunice, my decision is made. I shall shun politics, religion, and commerce, and I shall avoid the cities...Our present duty is plain. We must now be witnesses to the name of Jehovah.

A 10 year old child reading that book would now be in his or her mid 80s.

38

Honestly, Did Jehovah's Witnesses Do Anything POSITIVE For You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was raised as a witness and am very thankful that i am out.

having said that, i think my upbringing produced positive qualities in me.

do you believe that anything positive came from your being a witness?

neverendingjourney

As others have mentioned, there's a lot more to this type of question than might meet the eye.

"Did being in prison do anything positive for you?" "Yes, it provided me three square meals a day."

Obviously, there's more to it than that.

There were some positive aspects of being raised a JW. My family fit the demographic profile of most recently-converted JWs in Texas: recent immigrants, lonely, poorly-educated, naive. We lived in a gang-infested area of town. My mom took the JW teachings to heart and became a Nazi about my not having friendships with "worldly" kids.

It's possible I would have otherwise gotten caught up in the wrong crowd and made some mistakes that would have permanently affected the trajectory of my life (criminal activity, getting a girl pregnant in my teens, etc.). It's impossible to know for certain.

Better questions to ask, though, are: On balance was the JW experience a positive one or a negative one? Might my parents have found more productive ways to insulate me from the dangers of growing up poor?

The fact that there might have been some positive aspects to JW life doesn't tell us much in and of itself.