Posts by neverendingjourney

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

neverendingjourney

By the time i woke up i was flat out telling brothers to lie and that ni one cared. Some were uncomfortable with that thought so i changed it to 'be generous and creative with time reporting'

The congregation secretary was a guy with five kids and an extremely nosy wife. He often worked a lot of overtime and was one of the least organized people I knew. A terrible mix of traits for that role. He'd often leave the elders book lying around where his wife and kids could see it. I would find service cards for publishers in between the couch cushions at his house.

One time he managed to lose months worth of publisher cards. He was panicking as the CO visit neared and came up to my mother and me and asked us whether we had our records for months X, Y, and Z. Neither of us did, so he asked us to estimate. I told him I didn't feel comfortable doing that. My mother said she remembered reporting some time in Month X but she didn't have any time to report for Month Y. The elder in not so many words told us to make something up. I do remember him capping off that discussion by saying "The CO is coming and I'm not going to report 0 hours for you." He framed the discussion as if it was our fault somehow.

I sort of sympathize with him as he was trying to do too many things at once, but at the end of the day it's on him for wanting the prestige enough to keep him in that role even though he didn't have enough time to handle it.

Here's another story involving the same elder. When I was a pioneer and I had fallen behind on my hours he met with me and asked me what I planned to do to get current. I told him it was impossible. I had to work full time and I simply didn't have enough hours in the day to meet the requirement. He said "I can't tell the CO that. I'm going to tell him you're trying to get back on track." "No," I said. "That wouldn't be true. I won't be able to get my hours in, period." 'Well, here's this auxiliary pioneer application. I'm going to tell him you're going to auxiliary pioneer until you get to the point where you can be a regular pioneer again. That's the best I can do." I never filled out the application.

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

neverendingjourney

I shared my views on this topic here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6310981636456448/elders-getting-burnt-up?page=2&size=10#/5149556712931328

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

Where did you ejaculate"?

Aside from the obvious, this question is particularly odd because where he ejaculated doesn't bear any relevance to the question of whether or not a disfellowshipable offense had been committed.

In other words, the outcome of the JC wasn't going to turn on where the guy dumped his load. If she put her mouth around the rim of his tool, that's oral sex, a disfellowshipable offense under JW standards, regardless of whether or not he climaxed. The question of where his load ended up is even less relevant.

What a weird little world I used to be a part of.

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

I just can't imagine how anyone would put up with being questioned in this way?

Several years later I brought one of the elders of my JC along to a bible study. The guy who studied with me was a recently arrived immigrant with no connections to JWism other than his boss who was also a study.

Out of nowhere the elder asks "Do you know what masturbation is?" The study nervously shook his head. "It's when you manipulate your penis with your hands to create an ejaculation. You've never heard of this?" No, he answers ever-increasingly nervous. "Well, the Bible says that masturbation is wrong and you should pray to Jehovah if you're struggling with this habit."

The poor guy never opened the door for me again. I tried and tried and was never able to reconnect. I wonder why?

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

By the way, this is how your handle appears on the front page:

And a Mormon just believes in Jehovah's Witnesses. Thought it was funny.

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

"Did you put your hands below her shirt?

Did you kiss her exposed breasts?

Did you fondle her genitals? Did she fondle yours?"

These were all questions asked during my JC when I was 19. Good times.

65

My Introduction - An ex-elder's story of waking up later in life.

by doubtfull1799 in

background:.

my parents got the “truth” while i was in primary school.

i was baptised at 14. i loved school and was extremely studious.

neverendingjourney

Welcome.

I had the same bout with borderline-suicidal depression 13 years ago and now the religion is something that's mostly a distant memory for me. It gets better.

It's also encouraging to see that smart people are still leaving the Witnesses after discovering the logical inconsistencies and flat-out lies. I was beginning to wonder whether they'd already been purged. I wonder how I would have reacted had I still been a Witness when the overlapping-generations teaching was rolled out. That might have been a step too far even for me at the peak of my involvement.

16

NPR News: Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

by breakfast of champions in

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses.

can't comment on this right now because i'm heading off to school .

transcript:.

neverendingjourney

@LongHairGal

I completely agree with you. I don't have any use for their nonsense and haven't for almost a dozen years. I've just seen embittered forces win out time after time. If a congregation becomes known for being "liberal" it usually doesn't take very long before outside forces make their voices heard and usually the CO will bring the hammer down.

I specifically remember a congregation who became known for having particularly compassionate elders, except for one nasty SOB. A few of the elders allowed the youth to have large, supervised parties (gasp!). Eventually the SOB was able to get the CO to remove a few of those elders on dubious grounds and the congregation quickly returned to its prior condition, a fertile land for him to rule over as a tyrant.

A major driving force was the complaints the CO received from JWs in neighboring congregations who complained that such parties were wrong and they were having trouble keeping the youth in line when the neighboring elders were allowing it in their own congregation.

29

The true cost of being raised as a witness

by stuckinarut2 in

how do you view your upbringing as a witness?.

most of us who were raised as witnesses would appreciate that some aspects of our upbringing were ok. a foundation and measure of stability came with it.. but, it struck me too, that we also lost so very much!

and we lost a lot of potential.. by this i mean, we need to look at not just what we lost, or what was deprived of us, but what that ended up costing us as adults into the future.. if i take $10 from you, you have lost just $10.. but, if you were going to use that $10 to buy something that would end up earning you $1000, then i actually took $1000 from you!.

neverendingjourney

I struggle with this question. On the one hand, you can find some good in the most miserable situations. For instance, a cancer survivor might tell you how the experience made them view each day as a gift and helped them cherish each and every day. Hell, even a prisoner can tell you they get three meals a day and clean water to drink. On the other hand, the religion makes you sacrifice in ways that are counterproductive materially and harmful to the soul.

In my personal experience, it's possible that growing up a JW was a net positive, but for reasons outside of my control. My mother was completely unequipped to raise a family. My father had no interest or was incapable of providing any kind of guidance. He wasn't a deadbeat. Although poor, we never went to bed hungry.

We grew up in a poor neighborhood and attended failing schools (the kind that have two or three armed police officers on permanent patrol). The average classmate is divorced, working a menial job and living day-to-day. A lot of my classmates have felony records and have spent time in prison. At least three classmates are in prison for murder. Gangs were rampant.

The religion gave my mother the justification to become a zealot about protecting us from "the world." I did not have friendships outside of school growing up. My mother was inactive, so we didn't have friends at the KH, either. My entire childhood consisted of going to school and coming home to watch television or play Ninetendo. My childhood and adolescence were robbed from me.

But by the time I turned 18, I didn't have any of the baggage that I might have acquired had my mother not been as militant as she was. I could very easily envision a scenario where I would have been an accomplice to a crime because I was hanging out with the wrong crowd or a situation where I got a girl pregnant in our teens. The last meeting I attended was when I was about 25 years old and I felt like I've been running 7 years behind ever since. My 25 was essentially 18 for most people. I've managed to do fine and am currently in a really nice spot in my mid/late 30s where JWism is mostly a distant memory I reminisce about here once or twice a week.

I'd love to take a peek at the parallel universe where my parents never became JWs and see how things would have played out. It's possible I'd be in a worse position now simply because my mother was not equipped to raise us properly and JWism at least made her skew to the overprotectionism side of things.

None of this means all is well in JW-land. As others who left much later in life have attested to, the longer you stayed in the cult the more severe the ramifications.

Edit: The better solution would have been having parents who could skillfully navigate the challenges of raising kids in near-poverty without the unnecessary burdens of JWism, but given the hand I was actually dealt, this might have been the best possible outcome for me.

16

NPR News: Lack Of Education Leads To Lost Dreams And Low Income For Many Jehovah's Witnesses

by breakfast of champions in

http://www.npr.org/2017/02/19/510585965/poor-education-leads-to-lost-dreams-and-low-income-for-many-jehovahs-witnesses.

can't comment on this right now because i'm heading off to school .

transcript:.

neverendingjourney

My oldest son (degree in computer science) is a ministerial servant in a congregation where the majority of those his age have degrees. It's the "hot" congregation in our district.

In my experience, these places usually don't last very long. They're usually done in by a combination of JWs waking up and leaving and outside pressure exerted from embittered forces who aren't going to stand by idly while other JWs operate happily with impunity when they and their families were forced to pay the cost of no college in order to maintain good standing in the organization (If my kids couldn't go to college, it's not fair for others who did go to college to maintain their privileges).