Posts by neverendingjourney

11

Book That Helped Me - My Recommended Reading List

by doubtfull1799 in

these are the books that led to my awakening:.

the art of thinking clearly - rolf dobelli.

how to defend the christian faith: advice from an evolutionist - john w.loftus.

neverendingjourney

Not that you need any additional reading material, but Combating Cult Mind Control is also a good one.

13

"Those Who Leave Are Doomed..."

by AllTimeJeff in

in mission impossible 3, ethan hunt (aka tom cruise) and his protege (aka keri russell) have an explosive pellet implanted in their heads through their nose by the bad guys as a way to control them.

the only way to to stop it from detonating is to use a defibrillator or some device to send massive electric shocks to the body, thus short circuiting the deadly implant.

hunt's protege doesn't get the help she needed in time, and she dies.

Imagine if Bernie Madoff, while making illusory fortunes for his clients, had also spent a considerable amount of time ridiculing people who lost their money in the stock market. "People who aren't successful in the stock market turn into a bunch of lunatics."

Imagine further that after his conviction for running an illegal Ponzi scheme that cost tens of thousands of people their life savings, Madoff turned around and mocked his victims. "See, I told you all along that people who lose in the stock market go crazy."

What do you suppose the response would be? Would the media and public join in the ridicule or would they turn their ire on the criminal who stole their money?

This is more or less where I've come down on the issue of "crazy apostates." Yes a lot of ex-JWs on this forum or otherwise exhibit symptoms of anger management or other instabilities. But at the end of the day, what's the most important narrative: the fact that the victims of the Ponzi scheme are having a hard time adjusting and coming to terms with losing their life savings or the fact that they were taken advantage of by a criminal who turned their world upside down?

Similarly, what's the most important issue when discussing the issues commonly encountered by ex-JWs: the fact that many have trouble adjusting or the fact that they were deceived?

That's not an excuse to adopt a victim mentality and ex-JWs should do all they can to get back on their feet as quickly as possible. However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we are talking about victims of a religious cult, after all.

22

Went to the assembly..some.personal thoughts on it.

by integ in

jw
friends

i've been as honest as i can on this forum throughout my time bouncing in and out..and been jumped on for saying anything positive about the "truth" or my experiences at the hall, but it's been a few years now since i have been attending meetings.

i go to the memorial for family reasons and went to the assembly today for the same reason...but one observation i have to make is most of us have all dealt with years of hearing how gawd awful "the world" is and how the only happiness is going to meetings and out in service.

now that is total bs.

neverendingjourney

The "world" is what you make of it.

One of the best things about not being a JW anymore is that I have the luxury of surrounding myself with people who I enjoy being around and who are positive influences in my life. I didn't have that choice when I was a Witnesses and it was a huge drag.

If you leave the JWs and surround yourself with lowlifes, you'll end up being just like one of the cautionary tales in the magazines. But that's on you. You can choose to make a better life for yourself if that's what you want.

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

neverendingjourney

By the time i woke up i was flat out telling brothers to lie and that ni one cared. Some were uncomfortable with that thought so i changed it to 'be generous and creative with time reporting'

The congregation secretary was a guy with five kids and an extremely nosy wife. He often worked a lot of overtime and was one of the least organized people I knew. A terrible mix of traits for that role. He'd often leave the elders book lying around where his wife and kids could see it. I would find service cards for publishers in between the couch cushions at his house.

One time he managed to lose months worth of publisher cards. He was panicking as the CO visit neared and came up to my mother and me and asked us whether we had our records for months X, Y, and Z. Neither of us did, so he asked us to estimate. I told him I didn't feel comfortable doing that. My mother said she remembered reporting some time in Month X but she didn't have any time to report for Month Y. The elder in not so many words told us to make something up. I do remember him capping off that discussion by saying "The CO is coming and I'm not going to report 0 hours for you." He framed the discussion as if it was our fault somehow.

I sort of sympathize with him as he was trying to do too many things at once, but at the end of the day it's on him for wanting the prestige enough to keep him in that role even though he didn't have enough time to handle it.

Here's another story involving the same elder. When I was a pioneer and I had fallen behind on my hours he met with me and asked me what I planned to do to get current. I told him it was impossible. I had to work full time and I simply didn't have enough hours in the day to meet the requirement. He said "I can't tell the CO that. I'm going to tell him you're trying to get back on track." "No," I said. "That wouldn't be true. I won't be able to get my hours in, period." 'Well, here's this auxiliary pioneer application. I'm going to tell him you're going to auxiliary pioneer until you get to the point where you can be a regular pioneer again. That's the best I can do." I never filled out the application.

26

Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1

by doubtfull1799 in

i was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.

my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.

one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.

neverendingjourney

I shared my views on this topic here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/6310981636456448/elders-getting-burnt-up?page=2&size=10#/5149556712931328

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

Where did you ejaculate"?

Aside from the obvious, this question is particularly odd because where he ejaculated doesn't bear any relevance to the question of whether or not a disfellowshipable offense had been committed.

In other words, the outcome of the JC wasn't going to turn on where the guy dumped his load. If she put her mouth around the rim of his tool, that's oral sex, a disfellowshipable offense under JW standards, regardless of whether or not he climaxed. The question of where his load ended up is even less relevant.

What a weird little world I used to be a part of.

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

I just can't imagine how anyone would put up with being questioned in this way?

Several years later I brought one of the elders of my JC along to a bible study. The guy who studied with me was a recently arrived immigrant with no connections to JWism other than his boss who was also a study.

Out of nowhere the elder asks "Do you know what masturbation is?" The study nervously shook his head. "It's when you manipulate your penis with your hands to create an ejaculation. You've never heard of this?" No, he answers ever-increasingly nervous. "Well, the Bible says that masturbation is wrong and you should pray to Jehovah if you're struggling with this habit."

The poor guy never opened the door for me again. I tried and tried and was never able to reconnect. I wonder why?

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

By the way, this is how your handle appears on the front page:

And a Mormon just believes in Jehovah's Witnesses. Thought it was funny.

19

My awkward elders hearing

by Andamormonjustbelieves in

i was baptized when i was 14 years old.

i hadn't had any real relationship with a girl up to that point.

but when i started going to high school i learnt the joys of experimenting with girls, so i did not stay a faithful member of the congregation for long.

neverendingjourney

"Did you put your hands below her shirt?

Did you kiss her exposed breasts?

Did you fondle her genitals? Did she fondle yours?"

These were all questions asked during my JC when I was 19. Good times.

65

My Introduction - An ex-elder's story of waking up later in life.

by doubtfull1799 in

background:.

my parents got the “truth” while i was in primary school.

i was baptised at 14. i loved school and was extremely studious.

neverendingjourney

Welcome.

I had the same bout with borderline-suicidal depression 13 years ago and now the religion is something that's mostly a distant memory for me. It gets better.

It's also encouraging to see that smart people are still leaving the Witnesses after discovering the logical inconsistencies and flat-out lies. I was beginning to wonder whether they'd already been purged. I wonder how I would have reacted had I still been a Witness when the overlapping-generations teaching was rolled out. That might have been a step too far even for me at the peak of my involvement.