This is my very last reply, forever. I am so done.
That's cool. Come back when you're in a position to have a reasoned discussion without getting your blood pressure up.
neverendingjourney
JoinedPosts by neverendingjourney
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50
Pharaoh tries to kill all male babies - later Moses orders the very same thing!
by George One Time inso many things that i just discoved about the bible.. .
so from the book my book of bible stories, we all know how little moses was saved from a cruel pharaoh.
of course the king of egypt was afraid that those cute little babies would endanger his empire eventually.
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neverendingjourney
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Pharaoh tries to kill all male babies - later Moses orders the very same thing!
by George One Time inso many things that i just discoved about the bible.. .
so from the book my book of bible stories, we all know how little moses was saved from a cruel pharaoh.
of course the king of egypt was afraid that those cute little babies would endanger his empire eventually.
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neverendingjourney
Rejecting literal interpretations of the Exodus and various other accounts in the Torah is a very sound, modern way to practice religion. I applaud you for that.
However, not all Jews share your views and I'd argue that modern interpretations are irrelevant. What matters most for purposes of this discussion is how the words were understood at the time they were written.
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Pharaoh tries to kill all male babies - later Moses orders the very same thing!
by George One Time inso many things that i just discoved about the bible.. .
so from the book my book of bible stories, we all know how little moses was saved from a cruel pharaoh.
of course the king of egypt was afraid that those cute little babies would endanger his empire eventually.
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neverendingjourney
What I am saying is that people are coming to conclusions about the Exodus account based on what non-Jewish people have taught them
I'll bite.
Why do we have to judge the written words through the prism of how Jewish people interpret them (setting aside the fact that there is no consensus from "the Jewish people)? Shouldn't the words stand on their own?
Does this mean I can't have an opinion on the Quaran unless it's supported by the Muslim people? Do I even get to have a view on the Bible given that the only religion I've ever belonged to was the Jehovah's Witnesses? Can academics have a view on the scripture if they're not part of the faith?
It seems like you're arbitrarily setting up a barrier on purpose to insulate scripture from criticism.
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Pharaoh tries to kill all male babies - later Moses orders the very same thing!
by George One Time inso many things that i just discoved about the bible.. .
so from the book my book of bible stories, we all know how little moses was saved from a cruel pharaoh.
of course the king of egypt was afraid that those cute little babies would endanger his empire eventually.
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neverendingjourney
Slightly off topic, but someone on facebook posted an article about a transgender woman in Brazil who was beaten and then shot to death in the middle of a street. I didn't watch the video that was included in the article, but the screencap on the front page was enough to make my stomach turn.
After reflecting on it for a while, it occurred to me that I was waiting on exactly this sort of thing when I was a JW. In a twisted way using JW (or Christian/Jewish/Muslim) logic, one could say these people only ran ahead of God's chariot in carrying out the judgment instead of waiting on him to do it.
It's appalling and I'm embarrassed to have ever supported such a view, however passively.
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What is having the biggest impact on the watchtower Bible and tract society?
by UnshackleTheChains inhi all.. this is a reasonable question and would love to know what you think is having the biggest impact on watchtower.
there is a plethora of websites talking negatively of watchtower.
there are the never ending court cases regarding child abuse allegations.
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neverendingjourney
I haven't been part of a congregation in a dozen years. How are Witnesses dealing with Armageddon being put off so long?
I'm not talking about the career-climber Witnesses who are caught up and distracted by chasing power and prestige within the organization. Those people are too focused on the social status benefits of being a Witness to care too much about actual doctrine. Life is pretty good for them.
I'm talking about the rank and file Witnesses living day to day and dealing with the burdens of being a JW. Something's gotta give.
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Book That Helped Me - My Recommended Reading List
by doubtfull1799 inthese are the books that led to my awakening:.
the art of thinking clearly - rolf dobelli.
how to defend the christian faith: advice from an evolutionist - john w.loftus.
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neverendingjourney
Not that you need any additional reading material, but Combating Cult Mind Control is also a good one.
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"Those Who Leave Are Doomed..."
by AllTimeJeff inin mission impossible 3, ethan hunt (aka tom cruise) and his protege (aka keri russell) have an explosive pellet implanted in their heads through their nose by the bad guys as a way to control them.
the only way to to stop it from detonating is to use a defibrillator or some device to send massive electric shocks to the body, thus short circuiting the deadly implant.
hunt's protege doesn't get the help she needed in time, and she dies.
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neverendingjourney
Imagine if Bernie Madoff, while making illusory fortunes for his clients, had also spent a considerable amount of time ridiculing people who lost their money in the stock market. "People who aren't successful in the stock market turn into a bunch of lunatics."
Imagine further that after his conviction for running an illegal Ponzi scheme that cost tens of thousands of people their life savings, Madoff turned around and mocked his victims. "See, I told you all along that people who lose in the stock market go crazy."
What do you suppose the response would be? Would the media and public join in the ridicule or would they turn their ire on the criminal who stole their money?
This is more or less where I've come down on the issue of "crazy apostates." Yes a lot of ex-JWs on this forum or otherwise exhibit symptoms of anger management or other instabilities. But at the end of the day, what's the most important narrative: the fact that the victims of the Ponzi scheme are having a hard time adjusting and coming to terms with losing their life savings or the fact that they were taken advantage of by a criminal who turned their world upside down?
Similarly, what's the most important issue when discussing the issues commonly encountered by ex-JWs: the fact that many have trouble adjusting or the fact that they were deceived?
That's not an excuse to adopt a victim mentality and ex-JWs should do all they can to get back on their feet as quickly as possible. However, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we are talking about victims of a religious cult, after all.
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Went to the assembly..some.personal thoughts on it.
by integ ini've been as honest as i can on this forum throughout my time bouncing in and out..and been jumped on for saying anything positive about the "truth" or my experiences at the hall, but it's been a few years now since i have been attending meetings.
i go to the memorial for family reasons and went to the assembly today for the same reason...but one observation i have to make is most of us have all dealt with years of hearing how gawd awful "the world" is and how the only happiness is going to meetings and out in service.
now that is total bs.
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neverendingjourney
The "world" is what you make of it.
One of the best things about not being a JW anymore is that I have the luxury of surrounding myself with people who I enjoy being around and who are positive influences in my life. I didn't have that choice when I was a Witnesses and it was a huge drag.
If you leave the JWs and surround yourself with lowlifes, you'll end up being just like one of the cautionary tales in the magazines. But that's on you. You can choose to make a better life for yourself if that's what you want.
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1
by doubtfull1799 ini was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.
my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.
one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.
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neverendingjourney
By the time i woke up i was flat out telling brothers to lie and that ni one cared. Some were uncomfortable with that thought so i changed it to 'be generous and creative with time reporting'
The congregation secretary was a guy with five kids and an extremely nosy wife. He often worked a lot of overtime and was one of the least organized people I knew. A terrible mix of traits for that role. He'd often leave the elders book lying around where his wife and kids could see it. I would find service cards for publishers in between the couch cushions at his house.
One time he managed to lose months worth of publisher cards. He was panicking as the CO visit neared and came up to my mother and me and asked us whether we had our records for months X, Y, and Z. Neither of us did, so he asked us to estimate. I told him I didn't feel comfortable doing that. My mother said she remembered reporting some time in Month X but she didn't have any time to report for Month Y. The elder in not so many words told us to make something up. I do remember him capping off that discussion by saying "The CO is coming and I'm not going to report 0 hours for you." He framed the discussion as if it was our fault somehow.
I sort of sympathize with him as he was trying to do too many things at once, but at the end of the day it's on him for wanting the prestige enough to keep him in that role even though he didn't have enough time to handle it.
Here's another story involving the same elder. When I was a pioneer and I had fallen behind on my hours he met with me and asked me what I planned to do to get current. I told him it was impossible. I had to work full time and I simply didn't have enough hours in the day to meet the requirement. He said "I can't tell the CO that. I'm going to tell him you're trying to get back on track." "No," I said. "That wouldn't be true. I won't be able to get my hours in, period." 'Well, here's this auxiliary pioneer application. I'm going to tell him you're going to auxiliary pioneer until you get to the point where you can be a regular pioneer again. That's the best I can do." I never filled out the application.
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Observations from an Ex-Elder Part 1
by doubtfull1799 ini was thinking about the fog model this morning, particularly about the "obligation" part.
my mind went back to the last elders school i went to.
one of the parts in the section on appointments was discussing how we should not place too high a bar (human standards) for brothers to try and jump over when we are considering them for appointment as a ministerial servant.
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neverendingjourney
I shared my views on this topic here: