Posts by neverendingjourney

28

Current JW growth in the United States in historical perspective and in comparison with other groups

by slimboyfat in

current jw growth is slower than during most of their history.

the only probable exceptions are following 1975 when there was a brief worldwide decrease, the late 1920s when around half of the members left the movement, perhaps around the 1917 schism, and various schisms during russell’s time.

there were also periods of sluggish growth during the 1950/60s and around 2000. .

neverendingjourney

I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. 9/11 wasn't an inside job. The Earth is round.

That being said, I have a very difficult time accepting the JW numbers at face value. The reason for this is that Watchtower leadership believes they're entitled to lie to protect the Watchtower's interests. We saw this with the ARC. I read a news article about shunning not long ago where a WT representative outright lied in a way I don't ever recall them lying. Not clever word play. Not half truths intended to convey an incorrect impression. Lies.

It stems from their interpretation of the Rahab account. Apparently Rahab was authorized to lie because the Philistines didn't "deserve the truth." If leadership believes the flock might stumble if they publish negative growth numbers, I don't think they'd hesitate to pad them.

38

No Need To Preach In Every Country Anymore

by pale.emperor in

speaking to a pimo from my hometown yesterday.

he told me that in the watchtower study (10 nov 2019) regarding “the great tribulation” the elder on the platform said that there’s no need for jws to preach in every country in order to fulfil the prophecy, and therefore the org has already fulfilled that prophecy.

and that there’s nothing else left to wait for now but for “the great tribulation” to come.. gasps of delight came from the audience.. has anyone else heard this?

neverendingjourney

Hasn't the org been saying that for years?

I've been out over ten years, but I seem to remember a distinction being drawn between "land" and "nation." Something along the lines of "land" meaning a general geographic location as opposed to "nation," which is defined by modern boundaries and not by the borders that existed when Jesus roamed the Earth. Therefore, a witness isn't required in every nation as they currently exist on a map today.

I also seem to remember an assembly talk that proclaimed that Matthew 24:14 had already been fulfilled and the Witnesses were just waiting for Armageddon to come any day now. I remember receiving a JW chain email about it a year or so after I stopped attending meetings. That email is what prompted me to do some research online to verify whether there was any truth to the email. I discovered this forum as a direct result and I've never looked back.

39

The real dividing line isn’t between apostates and apologists it’s between...

by slimboyfat in

excellent observation from zizek about communist regimes: they didn’t care if people accepted the ideology or took it seriously, so long as people acted as if the ideology was true, that was the important thing.

in fact the regimes were deeply suspicious people who took the ideology too seriously.

people who took the ideology seriously were dangerous because they were prone to noticing the inconsistencies and flaws in the system.

neverendingjourney

Even though I was born in, my parents were inactive, so when I bought into the religion during my teenage years, it was almost as if I were a recent convert.

There was a young elder who took me under his wing. He, too, took the doctrine very seriously and we'd spend hour after hour discussing Watchtower teachings. That elder was disfellowshipped a month after I got baptized, though.

From that point forward, there weren't too many people, even elders, who wanted to engage with me. The vast majority of Witnesses would get very uncomfortable when I brought up doctrinal matters. Some even got angry. It was through social pressure that I eventually relaxed and learned that I was kind of on an island. I backed off for the most part.

Eventually I did find a few like-minded JWs, but that kind of "deep spiritual" discussion was largely unwelcome.

I think a lot of it coincided with Fred Franz's advanced age and eventual death. It seems that during the Franz era, JWs were encouraged to at least pretend to be Bible scholars, but that faded away once he was too old to hold any influence. Things started to dumb down considerably staring around 1990.

50

Did you EVER falsify your report card ?

by Chook in

every single watchtower soldier lied to god out of fear of the brooklyn popes..

neverendingjourney

I used to pioneer with some one who got really behind on his "time". Well close to the end of the service year, this person started putting 175 hours per month. No one believed these were true hours, but how could anybody prove it?

When I was a 17-year-old regular pioneer there was a 19-year-old pioneer in my congregation who I knew was faking his hours. I'd rarely see him in service. He'd often oversleep when we were supposed to go out together, and I'd have to go get him out of bed.

He was always careful to ask how many hours I had put in so far in the service year so that he would always be only 10 or 20 hours behind my pace. Then in August he all of a sudden wanted to go on vacation and lo and behold he somehow had managed to finish his 1,000 hours one month early. This was going to be a well-earned vacation without worrying about having to complete his time. Meanwhile, I had to put in a 12-hour service day on August 31st to finish out the service year.

Within a year he was publicly reproved for sleeping with a married sister.

50

Did you EVER falsify your report card ?

by Chook in

every single watchtower soldier lied to god out of fear of the brooklyn popes..

neverendingjourney

it makes know there is real reason to believe that much of the WTS reports are phantom

Even if the hours were "legit," very little time is actually spent talking to people. Back when I was a regular pioneer and meticulous about counting time, I'd spend maybe 30 minutes actually talking to people for every ten hours I reported.

I imagine the ratio of time counted vs. time spent talking to people is even more exaggerated now that cart witnessing is a thing.

50

Did you EVER falsify your report card ?

by Chook in

every single watchtower soldier lied to god out of fear of the brooklyn popes..

neverendingjourney

I started off being incredibly meticulous about maintaining time. I'd keep a notebook, round to nearest 5 minute interval and exclude any time spent on breaks, regardless of how inconsequential.

This approach pissed off nearly every Witness I went to service with, especially other regular pioneers. I discovered quickly that nearly everyone of them was knowingly exaggerating their time. With some of them, their justification for counting time the way they did went beyond farce. I've shared some of those stories here over the years.

During my final two or three years with the Witnesses, I would write down a few hours on a time slip every now and then. Sometimes I just hadn't kept good records and guessed. On some occasions I just didn't care and wanted to avoid being labeled as an "irregular" publisher. As someone mentioned above, the elders did not care. They lied about time themselves. The congregation secretary didn't want the hassle from the circuit overseer, so he was more than happy if you "estimated" a few hours every month.

12

Once Upon A Time In ... Hollywood (My review)

by Terry in

jw
friends

once upon a time in... hollywood my review.

i rode my bike through 3-digit temperature and watched quentin tarentino’s new film.the title harkens back to sergio leone’s trilogy titles.. i wanted to see it for personal reasons.

the time span covered is the background to much of my life.

neverendingjourney

I'm just glad there's still room for this kind of movie. With all the societal and technological changes over the years, Hollywood is reluctant to invest in movies unless they come with a built-in audience (remakes, reboots, sequels, adaptations).

Thanks goodness for Tarantino and his ability to still make a mini-event out of original and zany storytelling.

27

It was all GREEK to me

by Terry in

jw
friends

around 1976 i got the wild idea i'd like to learn greek (for my study of the christian greek scriptures and to 'get to the bottom' of whether i was wasting my time being even a token jehovah's witness.

) i would read the actual text and avoid my denomination's opinion commentaries, you see.. .

i learned the characters in the greek alphabet rather quickly and started reading an interlinear (english/greek) bible aloud - practicing my enunciation.

neverendingjourney

I was raised a JW in the 80s and was baptized and briefly became a regular pioneer in the 90s.

Parousia was thrown around by "spiritual brothers" who had a grasp of "deep spiritual matters," but it wasn't regularly brought up by the rank and file. For them, it was "deep spiritual stuff," like most 1914-related topics, that was beyond their grasp.

14

How to Recognize the One True Religion

by Vanderhoven7 in

how to recognize the one true religion.

it freely adds to the word of god to fits its doctrines.

it splits up families over birthday celebrations .

neverendingjourney

IS IT THE ONE TRUE RELIGION:

Do you think it's the one true religion -------------> It's not the one true religion

Do you think it's not the one true religion ------------> It's not the one true religion

Are you unsure of whether it's the one true religion ---------------> It's not the one true religion

21

Anyone drop out of high school or not focus on grades becuase the end was near

by rockemsockem in

i dropped out with 3 months left to go of the 12th grade.

my uncle offed me a job and the end was only a few years away.

my mother even though she was dyed in the wool at the time said she would only go along with it if i took a correspondence course out of american correspondence school out of chicago.

neverendingjourney

Home schooling is still popular. I have a couple nieces being "home schooled" by my idiot siblings.

My parents only had an elementary school education, so I don't know how much of this to put on the cult and how much I should blame my parents for their own lack of imagination, but I showed a gift for school from a very young age. But to my parents it was just a novelty. They'd laugh at how I would get straight A's and was being pestered by school administrators to submit to specialized testing. It was a curiosity to them, nothing more.