Posts by SnakesInTheTower

48

Poll: Who Left Whilst Still Believing?

by brinjen in

this is for an upcoming youtube project.

i would love to do this on a mass scale... think there might be something "big" in the results.. 1. were you a born-in (including those who's parents converted while they were still children) or did you convert as an adult?.

2. when you left, did you still (a) fully believe in the truthtm, (b) partially believe or (c) realise it was all a load of crap?.

SnakesInTheTower

1. Were you a born-in (including those who's parents converted while they were still children) or did you convert as an adult?

Mom baptized when I was around 4. I, too, remember seeing pics of a single x-mas and/or birthday. (I am sooooo looking forward to celebrating it this year). Foolishly, I was dunked at 16.

2. When you left, did you still (a) fully believe in the truth TM , (b) partially believe or (c) realise it was all a load of crap?

(c) I knew it was BS....and had inklings that it was BS prior to the 1995 Generation™ change due to my outside research on Bible chronology..... when I left I didn't know if there was supposed to be anything else. Probably why I stayed another 10+ years...on the Theocratic Treadmill.....

3. Now, do you still (a) fully believe in the truth TM , (b) partially believe or (c) realise it is all a load of crap?

(c) Still know that the WTBTS/JW/GB is/are full of crap.

4. When you left, how afraid where you of armageddon TM ?

Armageddon™ I do not think had any real effect on me, either when I was in or out. I think I always knew that the Big A story had holes. However, I was saddened that I would not see my dad in a fantasy Resurrection™ in a Paradise Earth™. I had to regrieve all over again.

5. Do you class yourself now as (a) christian (b) agnostic (c) atheist or (d) other (please state).

(d) completely uninterested in religion. figure there is some sort of Intelligent Designer out there...or its kid is running amok in the universe making science projects and getting bored with us. try to respect the planet and leave it as I found it when I got here.

SnakesInTheTower (aka Rich, of the "finally free of the cult" Sheep Class)

32

Give Your Advice To Anyone Planning To Fade

by minimus in

jw
friends

list some thoughts and suggestions for anyone thinking about fading from the organization..

SnakesInTheTower

I wrote this synopsis about my fade on Cognac's thread about switching halls before I seen this thread..

when I switched KHs to start my fade, I changed congos, circuits, and states. All while living right where I am still at now. I drove to this new KH about 15 miles away. Once the BOE in the new congo got the letter from my old congo BOE stating I had been deleted (rather than resigned for personal reasons as they originally had wanted) as an elder, the elders lost interest in me rather quickly. See, I was no good to them for 3 years..and then only as an MS for a brief time... they needed elders now....

I was never assigned to a book study group, it was difficult to get Kingdumb Miseries, I never signed up for the Theocratic Misery School...basically, I was a white guy (one of less than a dozen whites) in a black congo...and it was a large congo (over 140 regular publishers)...so I got lost in the shuffle very quickly..... never attended book study....never went in service there..... turned in phantom time for 8 months....quit going to the Thur night meeting...then started either missing Sunday or leaving after the talk. Then the DC came (I didn't go), and then the KH went through a 6 week remodel (gut job)...I never attended the alternative location....came back for one last meeting when they returned...knowing that was my last meeting.

Key to my fade was getting out of the social circle I was in. My fade will bust wide open this weekend.... my fiancee and her son begin moving in tomorrow. 2 years fade.... I accomplished what I needed.

Because I was so high profile locally (elder, pioneer, MTS grad), it was more difficult to drop from the radar in the congo I was in for the previous 4 years. I plotted very carefully how I faded. Thus the switch. Had I stayed in that first congo, I guarantee the elder who worked his ass off for 4+ years to get me deleted would have worked harder to get me DF.

I have thought about DA'ing...but that is subscribing to their game...a game I no longer participate in. When I tell my full story on this board, it will be with my full name and location.... it is taking a while to get it just right. Meanwhile, I have a great new life with a great fiancee and a great soon to be stepson.

My way of fading worked for me, but it may not work for you. (*)

SnakesInOutOfTheTower (Rich, of the "no longer lurking in the shadows of the Tower™" Sheep Class)

(*) Read directions carefully before fading. Results may vary. Do not take with alcohol. Taking alcohol during a fade may lead to fun times. Hell, why not take alcohol, screw it. Fading may cause sleeplessness, sleepiness, diarreah, constipation, upset stomach, shortness of breath, restless leg syndrome, heart palpitations, elder visits, shakes, rattles, rolls, ulcers, judicial committees, PMS, incontinence, impotence, ED, seizures, hair loss, hair growth, nose hair growth, nosy witness syndrome, and other unexplainable symptoms requiring a sudden end to the fade. May also lead to freedom to think, celebration of really cool pagan holidays, regaining lost "worldly" friends and family, ability to pursue higher education leading to college degrees leading to good paying jobs, promotions at work, social status, real retirement plans, finding someone that loves you for you not because you are tied to congregation status and other benefits.

18

We are switching halls...

by cognac in

jw
friends

i think that means that we are going to go to even less meetings and just generally have less to do with the jws because the hall we are at now is where all his friends are... unless somebody tries to take him under his wing and screws everything up.... btw, this was his idea.

thoughts?.

SnakesInTheTower

cognac...switching KHs is a good idea. being involved as little as possible (without completely dropping out of sight) is a balancing act.

when I switched KHs to start my fade, I changed congos, circuits, and states. All while living right where I am still at now. I drove to this new KH about 15 miles away. Once the BOE in the new congo got the letter from my old congo BOE stating I had been deleted (rather than resigned for personal reasons as they originally had wanted) as an elder, the elders lost interest in me rather quickly. See, I was no good to them for 3 years..and then only as an MS for a brief time... they needed elders now....

I was never assigned to a book study group, it was difficult to get Kingdumb Miseries, I never signed up for the Theocratic Misery School...basically, I was a white guy (one of less than a dozen whites) in a black congo...and it was a large congo (over 140 regular publishers)...so I got lost in the shuffle very quickly..... never attended book study....never went in service there..... turned in phantom time for 8 months....quit going to the Thur night meeting...then started either missing Sunday or leaving after the talk. Then the DC came (I didn't go), and then the KH went through a 6 week remodel (gut job)...I never attended the alternative location....came back for one last meeting when they returned...knowing that was my last meeting.

Key to my fade was getting out of the social circle I was in. My fade will bust wide open this weekend.... my fiancee and her son begin moving in tomorrow. 2 years fade.... I accomplished what I needed.

I wish you and hubby well in your fade

Snakes (Rich, of the "no longer lurking in the shadows" Sheep Class)

36

Why is it that JWs can toss around insults like "Worldly" when talking about non-JWs? (Fiancee got offended).

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

so yesterday i get this telephone call from a jw sister.

let's call her sister naive.

i knew sister naive when she was a teenager, knew her ex-husband when he and i were growing up in the congo.

SnakesInTheTower

purps:

Hit IGNORE!

scully:

Why not just subscribe to Call Control or Call Block and put her number in?

on both counts, if I would have recognized her cell number, I wouldhave hit IGNORE (which I have on my cell)...since actually ignoring her voice mail did not work. sigh.....

Because I have customers for my job calling me and I often get phone numbers I do not recognize, I do not have the luxury of ignoring all the calls, especially on days I work. I thought about programming Sister Naive's name/number in my cell directory so it would pop her name instead of just a number, but I cleared out almost all of the JW phone numbers from my directory.

Instead, I think I shall finish growing myself a spine and express it more succinctly if she calls back: "On the last phone call, you called my fiancee 'worldly'...that is offensive....do not call here again." ...and hang up. How's that?

Snakes (Rich )

36

Why is it that JWs can toss around insults like "Worldly" when talking about non-JWs? (Fiancee got offended).

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

so yesterday i get this telephone call from a jw sister.

let's call her sister naive.

i knew sister naive when she was a teenager, knew her ex-husband when he and i were growing up in the congo.

SnakesInTheTower

OUTLAW:

Toni is`nt going to put up with another woman..Encouraging you not to marry Toni.. LOL!!.. Your going to have to get rid of your Bevy of Beauties and concentrate on Toni..

yeah, Toni mentioned that about how do you think I feel about her discouraging you from marrying me?.... So I already heard it and understood it.

Problem here is.... I don't have a "Bevy of Beauties." (Ironically, when I was an elder, blah blah, etc, some jealous brothers called them my "Harem."....and I certainly wasn't getting any action. LOL)

Seriously, I did not initiate the call. I did not encourage it. I had hoped by ignoring Sister Naive's voice mail she would get the message. Guess not. Hopefully she gets it now. Any further calls from her will result in my being more blunt and less polite.

Snakes (Rich )

34

If Shunning Didn't Exist, Would JW's Exist In Their Current Form?

by AllTimeJeff in

in my opinion, this is the crux of the matter where ex jw's are concerned.. so many religions have disagreements with their members.

but you can disagree, research, question, and leave if that is your wish.

you may receive some sanction depending on the religion, but no shunning is required in the major faith's and religions of christendom.

SnakesInTheTower

I could not care less if the WTBTS DF's me. I am working on my story for posting now. In it will be plenty of identifying information about who I am. If they want to DF me, let them. It is their game not mine.

95% of my friends (aka "social contacts") in my life until about 4-5 years ago were JWs. About 3 years ago I started building real friends (as opposed to social contacts in the JWs) outside of the Organization because, long-term, I knew I was not hanging around the cult. It can be extremely difficult to leave such a large group of social contacts and have nothing to go to. I have been very fortunate to have met individuals from this forum and just in my regular life that I consider friends. It is what has gotten me to the point in my life that I could open up and actually have a relationship.

My fiancee does not quite understand the grip that a cult, be it JWs or other, has on its members and former members. She says "what can they possibly do to you?" It is a good question. Me personally? Not much. My JW-friends are all but gone and will disappear like cockroaches when the lights are turned on if/when I am DF. My JW mom says she will not shun me, but that is easy to say when she lives 690 miles away. I wonder how she would do if I were DF and she lived nearby? Already my mom calls me less and less. When I call her, we have less and less to talk about. Although I always listen respectfully to the goings-on in her life (which involve mostly meetings, field service, bible studies, and assemblies), she knows I only listen because it is coming from her. Otherwise, I could not care less about the Watchtower Society, Jehovah's Witnesses, et al.

So I have nothing to lose by leaving the Witnesses, or by being DF'd. What I do have to lose is the love of my life if I let JWs affect me. I have taken a stand. I will never go back. The Society has no grip on me because I have nothing to lose by staying away from the cult and everything to lose if I go back. However, there are a lot of others who the Society does have a grip on because they have so much extended JW family, business relationships, etc. and stand to lose emotionally, socially, even financially. I think it is that last one that caused me to never go into a business deal with JWs. The few times I did, I got burned.

Shunning is an institutional cult policy that is extremely effective on maintaining the control of those who fear any of the above. Shunning has little to no effect on former members such as myself.

Lose your fear, they lose their control.

Snakes (Rich )

36

Why is it that JWs can toss around insults like "Worldly" when talking about non-JWs? (Fiancee got offended).

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

so yesterday i get this telephone call from a jw sister.

let's call her sister naive.

i knew sister naive when she was a teenager, knew her ex-husband when he and i were growing up in the congo.

SnakesInTheTower

dinah:

Two years ago could you picture yourself with a wonderful non-Dub woman?

uh no. I did know her 3 years ago, but even 4 months ago when we started officially dating, we could not have imagined we would travel down this path so far so fast. We talked about that last night. We are also very comfortable with it. Toni is a better person than I could have ever imagined. Whd why the hell she puts up with me and the residuals of Dubworld I do not know...she is a very kind person...but she does have another side that says she tolerates no bs. Good.

kw:

This post itself, helps me see what an insult it is to use those terms.

which is why I posted the story.

black sheep:

Is Toni a member here yet? She should be. She should be asking us all of the questions she doesn't want to ask you.

She is not a member here yet, and she is welcome to read my posting history, esp the last 4 months, if she chooses. And yeah, some of what I have posted would make me uncomfortable if she read it.

Neither of us have a lot of time to be on here (or anywhere on the net). I have some extra time on my hands right now because a) I am done with school and b) my job is slow this week because our client is going through a computer billing system transition. I don't like working without proper support.

OH:

So why is it worth big drama if a JW calls someone "worldly", whereas it is totally OK to call JWs crazy, cultish, bastards, idiots etc.?

absolutely point taken. I do mess around with JW terms (gibbering buddy, wacktower, etc.) and do not hesitate to fire at the GB themselves. Individual JWs I try to not call crazy strictly based on being a dub.

sweetface...and considering that not only was I a brainwashed dub, but I was an elder to boot. Being judgemental and an ass came with the job description. It is also why I struggled with being a dub from around 95 until I left in 07. I did not beat to the same drum as many dubs. Nonetheless, I was as bad as some but not as bad as others. I can only apologize to those I hurt and move on. Your point is spot on, as is purps.

Now...gotta run, Toni just called..I am meeting her at work for lunch..

Snakes ( Rich)

36

Why is it that JWs can toss around insults like "Worldly" when talking about non-JWs? (Fiancee got offended).

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

so yesterday i get this telephone call from a jw sister.

let's call her sister naive.

i knew sister naive when she was a teenager, knew her ex-husband when he and i were growing up in the congo.

SnakesInTheTower

purps and flipper...

I think you will soon learn it's ok to keep some things to yourself in a relationship.

Agreed. Though it is tough when my fiancee already reads me pretty well. Hard to hide shield much from her.

The last couple of weeks and this week are always tough on me and emotionally I do not put up barriers as well as I usually do. My dad died Labor Day in 1994. About mid-August until Labor Day I get in a funk and am especially vulnerable to the antics of former JW friends.

So while maybe I should have just kept that little conversation to myself, it wore on me and Toni called me on it. I couldn't come up with an alternate reason for the additional bad mood. In the end, she and I had a very productive conversation over it.

Did I say I am damn lucky to have this gal in my life? I don't want to take that for granted.

Snakes (Rich )

5

Elderly JW sister calls me today, much different reaction than earlier call from Sister Naive

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

after my phone call today with sister naive (see link here), i really didn't want to talk to any more jws.

i have written about an elderly sister in my old congo that calls me periodically.

she is 90 and her daughter is 65, they still live independently in a small home.

SnakesInTheTower

After my phone call today with Sister Naive (see link here), I really didn't want to talk to any more JWs. I have written about an elderly sister in my old congo that calls me periodically. She is 90 and her daughter is 65, they still live independently in a small home. For awhile they had to both go into a nursing home, they were both back for a bit, then the 90 year old mother was back in the hospital for a few weeks. She went home last week.

Sadly, very few JWs even bother to visit or call her. She just lost her son a week or so ago, yet very few from the congo sent cards or contacted her..not even family...all of which are JWs. So she calls me from time to time. I do occasionally call or visit, but it tears the poor sister up because I no longer go to the KH.

She called today to talk. I told her straight up that my fiancee was moving in. The unexpected reply from this dear elderly sister: "I sure wish you were getting married first." I let her know that I was committed to her and that we would get married tomorrow if not for some financial circumstances that will clear after the first of the year. You see, it wasn't JW-land that was her concern, it was just her generation talking. My fiancee's mom (in her mid 60s) is the same way, wanting us to get married then move in. And this dear elderly sister likely will not share this info with the local elders. She realizes that she gave decades of her life to the Organization only to be shunted to the side in her time of need. So she is a little more lenient with me than she may have been in years past. Unlike Sister Naive (from my earlier post), Sister Elderly is genuinely happy for me, even if I am marrying a non-JW.

Even if she does spill the beans about my new living arrangements, I don't care...what can they do to me, DF me? mwahahahahaha! whatever. The congregation of Jehober's goobers no longer controls me.

Anyway, my fiancee wants to meet Sister Elderly, and Sister Elderly wants to meet her, so we may go down to her house next week for a quick visit. Sister Elderly was a stand-in grandma for me for years. I still care about Sister Elderly. No fair to yank the JW security blanket, tattered as it is, away from her. Let her have her final days in peace, though she may out live us all.

Snakes (Rich )

36

Why is it that JWs can toss around insults like "Worldly" when talking about non-JWs? (Fiancee got offended).

by SnakesInTheTower in

jw
friends

so yesterday i get this telephone call from a jw sister.

let's call her sister naive.

i knew sister naive when she was a teenager, knew her ex-husband when he and i were growing up in the congo.

SnakesInTheTower

Black Sheep:

I would have thought that being described as 'worldly' by a member of a crazy doomsday cult would be a complement. It means that you are not like them. That is something to celebrate.

Agreed. I told my fiancee that I am actually lower status than her in the eyes of JWs. I was an Elder™ and MTS grad..I should know better than go down this path I have taken.... In the world of JWs, an ex-JW is lower than a Worldly Person™. If they only knew I was actually an Apostate™ they would surely $hit their britches...

It is taking some work to convince my beautiful gal that I am truly done with the dubs. Yet, she doesn't want me to take the nuclear option (ie, writing a DA letter)..doesn't consider it to be necessary.

Snakes (Rich )