Posts by SnakesInTheTower

22

End of Pioneer Assist - real reasons?

by freddo in

i reckon that the sentence at the start of paragraph two of the letter to elders that says "in view of the good results and for other practical reasons, it is now felt that the pioneer assist others program has accomplished its purpose.

" (italics mine) is legal cya because if a pioneer goofs up and injures (while driving?

) or molests an assistee then there is a direct link to the wts because a pioneer is society appointed.. follow the dollars ....

SnakesInTheTower

Pioneering is not the glory title that it used to be.

(1) No reduced price literature because one does not pay for it anymore.

(2) No free lunch tickets because one must bring one's own lunch to the assemblies.

(3) The meeting with the CO has been watered down by allowing auxiliary pioneers and wannabe pioneers to meet the first half hour.

(4) No meeting at the CA anymore and the meeting before the assembly for pioneers is down to what, 2 or 3 hours?

(5) Pioneers are not making a real sacrifice in the eyes of the rank and file...down from 100 hours every month to 90 hours a month (1,000 hours a year) to 70 hours a month... the old timers scoff at the newbie pioneers and their reduced load.

The PAO program was always a joke.... hadnt heard the change about pioneers being locally appointed.... that sure reduces the glory factor.

my goodness...I am so glad I aint piosneering anymore....

I wonder how long before Gilead and the missionary program is shut down... or more local Gileads (ie Mexico) are set up...

Snakes (Rich )

69

People Who Refuse to Tip at Restaurants are Embarrassing!

by White Dove in

jw
friends

egg and i were treated out to dinner three times last weekend by out of state visiting relatives.

just found out last night that they don't believe in tipping, at all!

we suggested the places to eat and frequent those places ourselves.

SnakesInTheTower

It depends on the restaraunt. 15-20% is standard..25% in the high end places (that I cannot afford). I figure if a meal is $10 (for ease of figuring this math example), sales tax is 8% (80 cents) and tip is 20% ($2)...I figure if I cannot afford $12.80 for my meal, I better not go out to eat...and sometimes this does figure into my decision to eat out or not. My soon to be stepdaughter was a driver for Pizza Hut, so if I order delivery, I would make sure I tip well. I rarely use delivery. I can cook myself or go get what I want for carry out.

I dont tip at those Carside to Go things.. I dont use them....waste of effort...I can go inside and pick it up myself. Same with pizza...I live close enough...I go get it.

If I know someone in my party is not tipping, I call them out on it (and remember not to go out to eat with them again). I understand the whoe large party gratuity being added in ahead.... large parties take a lot of effort.

If a server is not doing their job... and I am certain it is the server's fault, I call a manager over...and request a new server that I can tip properly.

Snakes (Rich )

23

Circuit Overseers, their roles, and their spouses

by garyneal in

my wife and i took a trip yesterday to deliver her camera to her mom so she may take it with her as she goes to kentucky where the need is greattm.

her mom is currently still in virginia staying with some brothers there while she gets schooled in giving talks (at least i think that is what she is doing).

i met the co's wife at the petersburg kh and after we dropped the camera off, my wife and i went to have dinner before returning home.. i ask about circuit overseers and their role because i was intrigued to learn that the kh we went to had an apartment for the co.. apparently, co's have no job of their own outside the watchtower activities and while my wife insisted that they did not 'take a vow of poverty' like the catholic clergy do, they technically do.

SnakesInTheTower

CO's are part of the Special Order of Full-Time Servants. This was a religious order set up in response to the Internal Revenue Service (US) and SSA (Social Security Administration) and Department of Labor. They do take a vow of "poverty and obedience"...basically the equivalent of "barefoot and pregnant" ...with the CO and their wives being reliant on the Society and the local yokels for everything.

Society does not pay them more than a monthly stipend, plus an annual allowance for clothes,etc. Because they are part of an officially sanctioned Religious Order per IRS rules, the Society does not pay payroll taxes on them and no state or federal taxes are taken out. Neither are OASDI or SSD (retirement and disability) payments.

I wonder how this works if a single MTS (Ministerial Training School) graduate goes into the circuit work (or goes to bethel) early in life, never works a paying gig where he earns SSI credits, then gets hurt or eventually retires. What happens at age 62/65/69...where is their pension. And heaven help the poor sap that realizes the truth about the Truth and wants to leave the Lie.... no skills, no retirement....nothing but the street.

Glad I woke up before it was too late. I went through MTS...before MTS, I wanted to be a CO....after MTS...I thought hell no. How do I get off this sinking ship. Left the MTS program 4 months after graduating....left the WT 5 years later.

Snakes (Rich )

60

Call from elder

by XPeterX in

i received a call a few hours ago from an elder.of course he didn't call me to ask how i was or if i needed help.instead he told me that "the youth and some older brothers" of my congregation will gather (at another elder's house,you see 2 elders to "get a hold of the situation") to talk about the "internet,facebook etc dangers".i told him that i will go.hmmm...it's going to be an interesting conversation..

SnakesInTheTower

XpeterX... if you are not a) baptized and b) you are not a minor, then c) you are not obligated to meet with elders of a high-control cult for any reason whatsoever. Having once been an elder in that cult, I can tell you that nothing...and I MEAN NOTHING...ever comes from meeting with elders. I don't care if it is just a so-called "encouragement" call. I guarantee that there was a conversation with at least one other elder (either a fellow elder, CO, or elder/GB written WT article) that prompted this whole meeting.

Steve2:

The Watchtower's been likened to a prison, but that's laughable; in my view it's a weak excuse for a prison, given the truckloads of people who walk out of it. It's more like a badly run child-care centre.

ROFLMAO.....priceless. Now I have visions of little children wondering around outside of a Kingdumb Hell. Ironically, the KH I used to attend before they sold it and built new is now a........ wait for it...... a child-care centre.

Snakes (Rich )

33

Shouldn't have answered the phone just now

by Soldier77 in

i just answered the phone and it didn't phase me that caller id did not tell me who was calling.

well, it was an elder.... he wanted to know the usual interogation crap, where i've been, have i gone to the dc yet, when am i going, i will love it, etc, typical bullshit.

then he says, "i noticed you haven't turned in any time for last month, do you have any to report?

SnakesInTheTower

When I was secretary, I printed out a list for the book study conductors.... I refused to deal with 100 time slips. I told them deal with calling the publishers in their groups.... collect the slips...consolidate the data on to my single page worksheet...and turn in the sheet and the slips in the provided manila envelope to me... in fact, just put the envelope in the time box at the hall... I will collect it there..... I dealt with 6 envelopes..with 6 sheets.... and only dealt with 6 overseers to call ...... not 100 people bothering me with time.... which often I knew was BS anyway.

took me about 10-20 minutes to record on all the cards... flew through them...then another 5 minutes to deal with the consolidated report to the society...then I was done... usually watched a recorded episode of Survivor while doing that... (that show reminds me of congregation politics).

I am so glad I dont deal with that now.

And by the way...if a person (elder or otherwise) calls, and you answer, and you don't want to talk to them...either be polite and say not now.... or just say... dont call back...why should we hide from our own phones?

I hate it when I see an incoming call with no ID on it... I never know if it is a customer or not calling my cell phone...I give it out instead of my home number ...so I kind of have to answer some times. I say block the elder numbers...or assign the theme to Jaws as the ringtone. BTW...my cell number ends in 666..I picked it on purpose...a never used phone number...guess no one wants a number with the devil number in it......lol

Snakes (Rich )

10

What is it like to be an elder???

by confliction in

jw
friends

i'm not 18 yet, so i've never had the chance to become one (thank god), but what kind of things do you learn as an elder that are... different from being a regular jw or basically someone without "priveleges"?.

.

for example, what stuff do you hear, what books do you get, what kind of things did you see, etc..

SnakesInTheTower

I am trying to forget my 5 years as an elder (2001-2006, with a 10 month break in 2002).

However, I will never forget what one elder told me when I was still a wet-behind-the-ears-newly-appointed-ministerial servant back in 1986:

"Rich, be glad you are not an elder. Once you become an elder, you can never walk in to the KH and look at people the same way ever. You know who hates who, who has done what to/with whom, you know all the business and gossip of everyone. Ignorance is bliss."

Was he ever right. As to the books and things...the elder book (at least the ks91 edition) is on the internet as a PDF...some even have "elder notes" which are the real "juicy" stuff that WT would never publish in a copyrighted book but will transmit as verbal heresay at elders meetings/schools for them to write in the 2 inch margins. MTS (Ministerial Training School) was that times 10. It was at MTS that I realized the utter bull$hit of the organization. Only took me another 5 years to leave it all.

I am so glad I am not an elder or a JW anymore.

Snakes (Rich )

7

New Books: The Origin of Life & Was Life Created?

by ForbiddenFruit in

so family forced me into accepting the two new pro-creation books released at the convention.

i haven't had a chance to read them properly yet, but i expect to be drilled to death by friends and family on how brilliant the book is.. anyway, i was wondering if anyone was working on a critical analysis?

or could join me in putting together a list of flaws in the books?

SnakesInTheTower

I briefly checked out the table of contents of the PDF of one of the brochures someone posted a link for...

...I mentally checked out about 12.36 seconds into it. Deleted it from my desktop microseconds later.

...truly... I cannot be bothered to listen/read that WTSh*t anymore... LOL progress.

..I still enjoy perusing Blondie's comments, but only for her amazing memory and wit, not the witlessness of the WT articles themselves.

..my JW mom no longer discusses WT, or sadly anything else, with me these days...so no need to keep up...

Snakes (Rich )

13

Another question about disfellowshiping

by XPeterX in

jw
friends

if the elders decide to disfellowship someone and after being reinstated it is proved that he didn't commit the wrongdoing,what happens then?do the elders apologise to him?.

SnakesInTheTower

NO APOLOGY FROM GOD'S PERFECT CHANNEL

I switched channels to real life.

Back in 1991, I was judicially reproved for lying. Restrictions for a single month just so it could be called "judicial." The "restriction" was no public prayer at the KH.... in the congo I was in, that was no big deal, as we had such a large body of brothers, it could be a couple of months.....I was removed as an MS and regular pioneer. My 3 month temp bethel ap came through immediately afterwards.... and I was forced to turn it down (in retrospect, thank goodness...LOL) Really, it was to keep a couple of lying married pioneer sisters quiet after they had their MS husbands run to the CO about me. CO told the elders "you have a problem among your pioneers, take care of it or I will take care of YOU [elders]." I was the easiest "solution."

A few months later, the CO did come and apologize to me PRIVATELY...off the record...they had indeed screwed up...I wasn't a liar after all....but they did not rescind the decision...and since it was "private" (aka "unannounced" reproof, except for my deletion), they figured no harm no foul....

I was not allowed to be a pioneer for a year and a MS for several and I had to switch congos to get it. I found out years later that I had been up for appointment as an elder in the original congo, the kangaroo court derailed that for ten years before I could fight my way back. What a waste of a decade.

I never received an apology from the elders. Where is the middle finger icon? I need it for Watchtower, et al. LOL

Snakes (Rich )

58

Has anyone heard of the elders being called independent agents. Spoke to a brother in the Legal department and he called them that.

by life is to short in

jw
friends

just wondering if anyone has ever heard of elders being referred to as independent agents before.

i called the legal department and spoke to an older brother about the child molesters in my hall about a month ago.

he did not want to speak to me because i am just a stupid sister but he did finally agree and that was one point he made.

SnakesInTheTower

I know one PO (COBOE) who is in his 80s, has a little money set aside.... needs to keep it protected...

He once told me he has a million dollar umbrella liability policy. He had it when he was a car salesman. I think he kept it after that.

Wonder if it would cover a lawsuit for his JW elder activities?

Snakes (Rich )

34

Responding to personal questions

by Lady Lee in

it has come to my attention that there have been numerous posts on the board asking posters personal questions like:.

where do you live?are you male or female?do you know people from a certain congregation?do you know a certain district overseer or circuit overseer?do you know of certain conflicts in your congregation?post some pictures of where you liveif you are an active or fading jw ...?if you are an active elder ...?there are plenty of other personal type questions that can be used to narrow down who you are.

some may seem quite innocent like the post pictures of where you live but if i post a picture of ottawa but don't want anyone to know i live in ottawa i have just told the internet world where i live.

SnakesInTheTower

Good reminders Lee... I am sure you mods don't have time to go and cleaning up everytime we regret posting something and our edit time has expired.

In the beginning, I am sure I posted info that, if read in its entirety with other posts, would have outed me. Since then, I have publicly identified myself because I no longer care if I am DF/DA. But that was not always the case.

And remember, anything posted on the public part of the board gets hit by Google bots within hours, sometimes minutes. I have posted, then did a Google search on key words from my post and up it pops. Try it with my post here...

Presume that anything posted on the internet, public or private, is out there forever.

Snakes (Rich )