personally, i don't think the organization is reformable.
while i was an elder, i tried to be a more moderate voice and as i grew older any harsher attitudes disappaited from within me.
as they say, all the good (and smart) elders have left.
Would YOU Remain A JW If You Thought The Watchtower Could Be Reformed?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Should I tell you how I really feel?
I agree, Minimus, that the few intelligent, thinking elders who remain in the Borg are in for reasons other than being convinced that it is the "TROOF."
Alex
i know this may be an annoying subject .
but if you did have to give up doing what you wanted in a career or opportunity - what was it ?
how controlling was the organization over you, and were you counseled by elders or higher ups to not pursue certain jobs, opportunities, college , etc - so that you stayed in the witnesses for awhile ; not doing what you wanted?
Hey Flipper and Everybody Else,
When I was a 10 year old kid, I started keeping a life-list of the birds I had identified and studied. I read everything I could about birds and dreamed of going to Cornell to study orinthology (Cornell has the greastest ornithology program in the world), but of course, college was frowned on when I graduated from high school in 1974 -- how ironic, huh? So, I did the next best thing.....
I started a business when I was 19 and it did very well, but it only did well because I put in a lot of hours trying to build it up. Eventually, I caught a ration of shit for not putting "kingdom interests first." I succumbed to the constant prodding and the business growth lost the momentum it had. I continued to provide a living, but I know that if I had been free to pursue it the way I wanted, I would have retired when I was 40.
Even while I had my business, I wanted to go back to school for an engineering or architecture degree, but that also incurred a ration of shit my wife and her parents and the elders....so more dreams squashed.
After I finally wised up and left the Borg in 1997, I went back to school in 1999. I finished a B.S. degree in geology in 2004 and in a few months I am going to finish a masters degree in geology and a law degree. So for all of you guys who think it's too late to go back it is not. Just pull yourself together and do it. This has been one of the greatest experiences of my life and the future has tremendous opportunity ahead for me.
I also want to say that, even though we don't know each other personally, I really appreciate all of the posters here. It is my goal to meet some of you guys in person somewhere along the way.
Cheers to all,
Alex
confession time!
i was raised in the troof and therefor never "chose" it.
i find it really hard to get my head around why anyone would ever join this organization as an adult.
Mick,
I am right there with ya' on this one...WTF!!!!
But, I also agree with the other posters (I was an elder) that the adults who join the Borg do it for reasons other than the fact that they have found a belief system that makes perfect sense.
Some get baptized so they can marry a Dub (saw that many times). Many, many others are vulnerable emotional wrecks when the Dubs contact them and they get sucked into with the love-bombing. And there are others who just, plain don't think it through.
All the best to everyone,
Alex
the news stations are reporting on the west texas orthodox lds sect compound and the atrocities that have been taking place there.
the sect tells its adherants that "anyone on the outside is of the devil".
also, the sect has previously predicted the end of the world.
I was thinking the same thing.
Polygamy doesn't necessarily have to be the ingredient that sends a group into reclusivity. It could be, oh I don't know, maybe that the preaching work is done and wild beast is poised to attack. If the Dubs walk down that path, it will only raise suspicions and make authorities start looking for something. And, once they start looking they WILL find something to pursue. Who knows what it could be? But they will find something. Money laundering comes to mind.
It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next few years.
Cheers to all,
Alex
we share a common past but have travelled many different roads to find each other here.
our outlooks and perceptions of reality are varied and often fascinating.
most of us are encouraging, funny, helpful and kind while others are still wrapped in bitterness and hatred or suffering from despair and privation.
This is an intelligent (for the most part), diverse group.
The refreshing thing is the full continuum of perspectives.
I am very thankful for this board and the contacts I've made with kindred spirits who also post here.
Cheers to all,
Alex
the last position about a resurrection (or not) for those in ancient sodom and gomorrah, in watchtower literature, is from the following 1989 publication.
there, they are clear in their spirit-directed teaching that there will be none.
newly revised you can live forever in paradise on earth (1989), chap.
So, it looks like the paedophiles both past and present get a free pass!!!
Beautiful.....why not, the organization 'perfectly reflects Jehovah's standards'....
Horseshit is right, JWexelder!!!
Who cares anyway, it's pointless speculation about something that is never going to happen one way or the other.
guided by gods spirit district convention of jehovahs witnesses.
friday.
the spirit will guide you into all the truth john 16:13. am.
EyesOpen,
That is funny!!! You should do it. Just think what a perfect way that would be to make the transition from "publisher" to editor.
Cheers,
Alex
"if you can find a religion that's better than jehovah's witnesses, let me know where i can find it".....i've heard jws say this in defense of "the truth" that they know is not 100% right.. what would you say to a witness that suggests that jehovah's witnesses are still better than all the others???
?.
Minimus, thanks for starting this thread.
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
religion
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-Fr. religiun (11c.), from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio ) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," in L.L. "monastic life" (5c.); according to Cicero, derived from relegare "go through again, read again," from re- "again" + legere "read" (see lecture). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. Meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300.
The question itself limits the argument. The real question should be, "If you can show me a belief system that is better......"
It's no coincidence that the word religion is derived from the Latin verb, religare, meaning "to bind fast." And that is exactly what all religions seek... to bind their adherents to a framework of thought that is externally imposed on them.
There is absolutely no empirical way to prove either the proposition that God(s) exists or that she/he doesn't and hence the very relevance of religion is likewise called into question. On the one hand it is a logical fallicy to assert that the non-existence of something can be proved. It cannot. One can merely, within the rules of logic, assess what the probabilities are based on what is observed. On the other hand, if there is a God(s) and a religion that is connected with the diety/dieties then one would expect at least some modicum of empirical proof for the diety's/dieties' existence somewhere on the planet. There is none. Occam's razor says (to paraphrase) that the most probable explanation for any given phenomena is the simplest, which rules out most religious explanations of what is going on.
As far as I am concerned, the belief system that offers the most satisfying and intellectually honest framework for explaining the world and us, is agnosticism and secular humanism. We don't need to have our minds "bound" by some artificial construct of reality to To the contrary, when the human mind is freed of the fear to think without bounds it results in a highly pragmatic and efficient approach to life, social problems, politics, the environment, and the multitude of other things we, as humans, must deal with.
Cheers to all,
Alex
just saw where charleton heston died from unspecified causes!
Probably some symian virus.
is it going to become mainstream?.
will it become more cultish?.
will it splinter off and re-create itself?.
The Borg has sown the seeds of its own destruction in multiple ways. I agree with the other posters who think that they will disintigrate over time.
First, the education ban means that any young ones who decide to stay in the Borg, will have to work many hours at low salaries just to maintain a poverty line standard of living. That means they won't be able to substantially contribute to the Borg either financially or with their time. That will lead to negative growth. Also, generally speaking, less educated people are not likely to attract more educated people to the Borg, which means that converts are not likely to be any better contributors than the home-grown variety.
Second (I have brought this up on a few other threads), there was a time (in the run up to 1975, during the 50s, 60s, and even the early 70s) when the writing in the Borg's publications actually bordered on scholarly. They encouraged the R&F to do outside research to confirm what the publications were saying. They encouraged studying the original Greek text of the Bible and also encouraged comparing other Bible translations with the NWT of the Bible. I believe the Borg's writers, having the appearance of being serious scholars of the Bible, were responsible for attracting educated, smart people to the Borg. When I was a kid (1960s) almost all of the elders were educated, dynamic speakers and leaders. That is all gone now. There are still a few smart, eloquent speakers, but by and large the quality has precipitously declined. There has been a significant brain drain as many talented and smart servants have 'seen through' the dumbing down of the message and left the Borg.
Third, those old timers and their children (from the 50s, 60s, & 70s), who are still in, are the backbone of the Borg. Prior to my exit in 1997, I had heard many old timers lament that they never expected to see the the end of the 20th Century in the old system. I suspect that the Borg's burial of the once-significant 1914 and their convoluted new teaching about the "generation," has many of those old timers harboring secret doubts about this being the last days. The "abundant proof" that the Borg offers for this time being the last days is nothing more than wishful thinking. The arguments they put forth are circular and full of logical fallacies. Even marginally thinking people intuitively sense this, although they may not admit it. The year 2014 may make many of them sit up say WTF and that may lead to a wholesale exodus.
Fourth, the R&F old timers may already be starting to doubt the GB's authority and its self-proclaimed role as channel for God's new light. Just below the facade of a happy organization there is probably a critical mass of simmering malcontents who just have not identified themselves to one another. IMHO, there may be some catalyst that starts people talking and that may trigger a mass exodus.
Fifth, the Borg's policies and tactics are taking them in the "Kool-Aid" (and I mean that literally) direction. This is something I never thought I would see (call me naive). Some of the members are bound to come to their senses and bail.
In any event, it will be interesting to see how things unfold over the next several years.
Cheers,
Alex
