The victors not only write the history, they also reproduce the texts. In a study that explores the close relationship between the social history of early Christianity and the textual tradition of the emerging New Testament, Ehrman examines how early struggles between Christian "heresy" and "orthodoxy" affected the transmission of the documents over which, in part, the debates were waged. His thesis is that proto-orthodox scribes of the second and third centuries occasionally altered their sacred texts for polemical reasons--for example, to oppose adoptionists like the Ebionites, who claimed that Christ was a man but not God, or docetists like Marcion, who claimed that he was God but not a man, or Gnostics like the Ptolemaeans, who claimed that he was two beings, one divine and one human. Ehrman's thorough and incisive analysis makes a significant contribution to our understanding of the social and intellectual history of early Christianity and raises intriguing questions about the relationship of readers to their texts, especially in an age when scribes could transform the documents they reproduced to make them say what they were already thought to mean, effecting thereby the orthodox corruption of Scripture.
whereami
JoinedPosts by whereami
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The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament.
by whereami inthe victors not only write the history, they also reproduce the texts.
in a study that explores the close relationship between the social history of early christianity and the textual tradition of the emerging new testament, ehrman examines how early struggles between christian "heresy" and "orthodoxy" affected the transmission of the documents over which, in part, the debates were waged.
his thesis is that proto-orthodox scribes of the second and third centuries occasionally altered their sacred texts for polemical reasons--for example, to oppose adoptionists like the ebionites, who claimed that christ was a man but not god, or docetists like marcion, who claimed that he was god but not a man, or gnostics like the ptolemaeans, who claimed that he was two beings, one divine and one human.
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Redemption, Salvation, Atonement? The fly in the ointment
by SweetBabyCheezits ini posted this paine quote in the middle of another thread but thought it deserved its own.
this principle eluded me before reading the age of reason.
it's such a simple, basic concept of justice and yet so many christians miss it (as i did) or ignore it.. .
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Jehovah's Witnesses, an Atheist, and a Christian. MUST SEE/HEAR VIDEO!!!!
by whereami in.
part 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x4h154knxq.
part 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p4s2co-j9s.
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Westboro Baptist Church: Are They Christians?
by whereami in.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzao6ibmlc.
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whereami
Thank you PSac & Tammy for your input. Again I agree with your assesment of the issue.
Whereami: I think you have not getting the answer you want because your question is not phrased properly. You asked if they were Christians. Only Jesus can decide whether or not someone is his follower, not anyone on this board.
I suspect the question you are really asking is this: Does anything they say actually conflict with the what is written in the Bible?
Justitia Themis, thank you also for your input. Maybe your right, I wasn't clear enough on what I was asking from the thread title. But I thought I made it clear later on. Take a look:
What exactlly are they saying that is wrong? Are they using their own bible version?
Are they misrepresenting what the bible says or not? Does the bible agree with them?
Are they saying something that's in the Christian bible or not?
is what they're saying technically wrong?
Are they not just repeating what the bible says on these subject? Are you saying the bible doesn't say that man sleeping with man women with women will not inharent the kingdom of heaven?
I think that qualifies for what you said is the way I should have worded it no?
I suspect the question you are really asking is this: Does anything they say actually conflict with the what is written in the Bible?
Again thanks to everyone for their input.
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Want to be a cult leader?? Just follow these steps.
by whereami inwho doesn't want to have loyal zombies following you blindly?.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ijkjnbgsg0&feature=player_embedded.
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whereami
MJNM- Glad you enjoyed it.
FF- LOL!!!
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Westboro Baptist Church: Are They Christians?
by whereami in.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzao6ibmlc.
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whereami
Ok guys listen I agree with all tha's been said regarding this specific "hate group", and I agree, these people are vile.
But again, being that these people consider themselves christians, is what they're saying technically wrong?
Are they not just repeating what the bible says on these subject? Are you saying the bible doesn't say that man sleeping with man women with women will not inharent the kingdom of heaven?
Again I agree that the "way" these people get the message out is wrong. But are they incorrect in saying what they say, not how they say it?
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I've been outed...
by brotherdan inso this weekend my wife had a major grand mal seizure for the first time in her life.
she was rushed to the er.
a few hours later while i was at her side she had another major one.. it was the scariest moment in my life.
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whereami
Come on guys give him a break. This isn't easy for him.
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Westboro Baptist Church: Are They Christians?
by whereami in.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzao6ibmlc.
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whereami
Come on PSac stop pussy footing around it.
Are they saying something that's in the Christian bible or not?
At the end of the day, is the message basically the same or not?
Why does everything Christian/religious have to be like you're pulling teeth when you're asking simple questions?
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I've been outed...
by brotherdan inso this weekend my wife had a major grand mal seizure for the first time in her life.
she was rushed to the er.
a few hours later while i was at her side she had another major one.. it was the scariest moment in my life.
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whereami
Daniel... my heart goes out to you. I'm in a very similar situation at home. Not only am I a evil apostate, but an atheist too!!!! Try that on for size.
My lovely wife is a staunch Jw. Very hardcore. She constantly cries at the fact that I'm the worst kind of disfellowshipped person. She's also blames me for losing the friends and social network that we once enjoyed in the hall. I can see in her eyes sometimes when she looks at me she's looking at a dead person. We were planning on starting a family, something I always wanted to be was a daddy, but she has erased that dream from me as long as we remain together. It's not easy my friend as you can see.
At this moment I refuse to give up on our marriage. I love her with every fiber of my body. I refuse to let this cult kill the love that's still there between us. Try to keep a leveled head at this momemt. It's very easy to do something you really might regret later on. Hang on and be patient with her. The best you can do is continue to give her and your kids unconditional love at all moments. Show her that you love her and value your marriage despite whatever might happen to you in the congregation. Remind her you fell in love with her, not her the JW.
And for yourself, take a moment to breath. DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF DAN!!!! This is not your doing. Remember, this cult has taken your wifes rational mind from her. Stay focused, and at this moment be there for her. I don't believe as you do in a god that intervenes, but if that's what gives you strength so be it. Use it to help yourself through this difficult moment.
Hang in there my friend. We're all pulling for you.
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Westboro Baptist Church: Are They Christians?
by whereami in.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzao6ibmlc.
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whereami
So are they or are they not?
What exactlly are they saying that is wrong? Are they using their own bible version?
Are they misrepresenting what the bible says or not? Does the bible agree with them?
A simple yes or no from other christians would suffice.