Bang,
Matthew 6:7 And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking (Amplified Bible)
Eyeslice
eyeslice
JoinedPosts by eyeslice
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24
Have your prayers changed?
by eyeslice inthis is a sort of follow up to "jesus- ignored, forgotten & unemployed at wts" posted by metatron.. it strikes me, that since i have re-appraised many of my religious views that my prayers have changed significantly.
and whilst i am still an active jw, i have wondered whether my family has noticed, though they have not said anything so far.. jws prayers are not only very stereotyped (despite what jesus admonition about not using the same words, or by extension the same thoughts, over and over again) but also extremely introverted towards the watchtower society.. for example, a typical congregation prayer will include the following thoughts;.
1. bless our congregation.
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24
Have your prayers changed?
by eyeslice inthis is a sort of follow up to "jesus- ignored, forgotten & unemployed at wts" posted by metatron.. it strikes me, that since i have re-appraised many of my religious views that my prayers have changed significantly.
and whilst i am still an active jw, i have wondered whether my family has noticed, though they have not said anything so far.. jws prayers are not only very stereotyped (despite what jesus admonition about not using the same words, or by extension the same thoughts, over and over again) but also extremely introverted towards the watchtower society.. for example, a typical congregation prayer will include the following thoughts;.
1. bless our congregation.
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eyeslice
This is a sort of follow up to "Jesus- Ignored, Forgotten & Unemployed at WTS" posted by metatron.
It strikes me, that since I have re-appraised many of my religious views that my prayers have changed significantly. And whilst I am still an active JW, I have wondered whether my family has noticed, though they have not said anything so far.
JW’s prayers are not only very stereotyped (despite what Jesus admonition about not using the same words, or by extension the same thoughts, over and over again) but also extremely introverted towards the Watchtower society.
For example, a typical congregation prayer will include the following thoughts;
1. bless our congregation
2. bless our elders
3. bless our pioneers
4. bless the fd&s that they may give us the right food at the proper time
5. bless the witnessing work in our territory and world wide
6. (if your are lucky) bless less fortunate brothersWhat you never get in either family or congregation prayers, and therefore I guess also in personal prayers from the average JW, are thoughts like these;
1. grant everyone in the world regardless of race, colour or religion, at least the absolute bare necessities for each day – they are all your children and Jesus loves them
2. bless the poor of world with hope and a glimpse of you Lord even if it is through non-Christian religions, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists.
3. bless the victims and families of Sept 11th , give them the hope and courage to carry on (tricky one this for the average JW congregation prayer – if I got up and expressed my true feelings publicly in prayer, I would be in big trouble; after all events like these are to be expected in the ‘last days’)
4. bless all those in Africa and Asia who are dying of Aids - Jesus would have been there to hold their hands (another tricky one – typical JW view “surely people’s life styles mean they contact Aids”, forgetting about the totally innocent victims such as children and wives, or even the fact poverty and promiscuity such as in Africa seem to go hand in hand).
5. bless the victims of physical violence and sexual abuse
6. help the perpetrators of family violence and sexual abuse to break the circle of abuse – abusers almost invariably where abused as youngsters themselves
7. help us to imitate Jesus in being totally non-judgmental of the shortcomings of others
8. bless the efforts of aid workers in Africa and Asia
9. bless people on both sides in the middle east, both Jews and Palestinians – they people, families, communities just like we are – as we would suffer, they are suffering today.
10. bless those who work for peace in the world, whether they be politicians, UN organizations or the man in the street – surely anything that relieves suffering must be good
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15
Political Compass Test
by Spartacus inthis is a neat little test, there aren't any wrong answers, only what you think, after answering the questionaire it tells you approximately where you stand on political and economic policy.
(numbers below 0 are to the left, numbers above 0 are to the right).
http://www.politicalcompass.org/.
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eyeslice
Economic Left/Right: -6.62
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -6.00Another left wing, libertarian Ghandi I guess.
An interesting point though, I would have said that in my youth I was extremely left wing but that I was less so now. The test shows to a large extent we probably do not change our fundamental belief system. I would have quite happily worked in Bethel for the common good or become a doctor, treating the lepers of Africa!
I often used to argue that Christianity in its basic form is very close to communism, with the added ingredient that God backs true Christians. Not to sure about JWs now, but still believe (even if still somewhat naively) in the good of mankind in general.
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27
The collapse of the WBTS? - I don't think so.
by dmouse indo we apostates fall into the same trap as jehovahs witnesses when it comes to blinding ourselves to the truth?.
how often have i confronted jws with overwhelming evidence that the so called signs of the times are simply not being fulfilled in our day only for them to bring up some barely relevant snippet of information, which, to them, shoots my argument down in flames?
it is incredible how jws can ignore the camel of evidence that contradicts what they believe and then exult over the gnat of evidence that supports their view.
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eyeslice
I do not think there will be an imminent collapse but what is obvious is the way things are slowly starting to fall apart.
I was speaking to my dad (in the truth for over 45 years now) on the phone just the other night, and he mentioned another disfellowshipping of a young person in his congregation. He bemoaned the fact that "we are losing them out the back door faster they are coming in through the front".
In my congregation I stepped down as an elder recently, and we have had other 'moderate' elders move to other congregations. But I look round and ask who is going to replace us relatively younger elders? Being in the truth all my life, I have worked on kingdom hall constructions since I was 12, gave public talks from 18, was a bookstudy conductor at the same age, appointed a ms as soon as the arrangement came in, served as an elder in a 3rd world country (SE Asia) with my wife and family for a while. But I can't see the enthusiastic youth coming up through the ranks. The loss of the highly motivated and enthusiastic R&F is the rot that is setting in. I guess like a building that is rotting, at fist nothing looks too bad and it won't collapse over night but the point will be reached when things will fall apart in a big way.
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11
Heaven and Earth will pass away?
by eyeslice inlike many, for years i understood the generation mentioned in matthew 24:34 to be an actual chronological generation that actually saw the events of 1914. this would mean that to be in a position to see and understand the events of 1914, someone would have to be at least 10 years old, and to be someone who actually fought in the great war, say 17 or 18 years old.
this generation has passed away, as clearly brought home with the recent death of the british queen mother who was born at the beginning of the 20th century.. whilst i understand the so called change of thought of a few years back that now makes this generation a contemporary rather than a chronological one, i cannot see how the guarantee that heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away sits with a much vaguer contemporary one.
if it is not possible to clearly define this generation, then this guarantee makes no sense.. has anyone heard of any new spins on the guarantee aspect, say from cos, dos, bethelites, etc, as the official lines have been particularly vague on this point?
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eyeslice
The point I was making was regarding the guarantee heaven and earth will pass away but there is no way that this generation will before seeing the fulfillment of Matthew 24. The problem the vague "contemporary" generation is the fact that is is vague! Because this "generation" cannot be identified as having a specific start and therefore a specific end (70 - 90 years later) the guarantee seems to make no sense to me.
The definition of the generation may have changed but to my knowledge no new explanation of the guarantee of it passing away has surfaced.
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11
Heaven and Earth will pass away?
by eyeslice inlike many, for years i understood the generation mentioned in matthew 24:34 to be an actual chronological generation that actually saw the events of 1914. this would mean that to be in a position to see and understand the events of 1914, someone would have to be at least 10 years old, and to be someone who actually fought in the great war, say 17 or 18 years old.
this generation has passed away, as clearly brought home with the recent death of the british queen mother who was born at the beginning of the 20th century.. whilst i understand the so called change of thought of a few years back that now makes this generation a contemporary rather than a chronological one, i cannot see how the guarantee that heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away sits with a much vaguer contemporary one.
if it is not possible to clearly define this generation, then this guarantee makes no sense.. has anyone heard of any new spins on the guarantee aspect, say from cos, dos, bethelites, etc, as the official lines have been particularly vague on this point?
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eyeslice
Like many, for years I understood the ‘generation’ mentioned in Matthew 24:34 to be an actual ‘chronological’ generation that actually saw the events of 1914. This would mean that to be in a position to see and understand the events of 1914, someone would have to be at least 10 years old, and to be someone who actually fought in the Great War, say 17 or 18 years old. This generation has passed away, as clearly brought home with the recent death of the British Queen Mother who was born at the beginning of the 20th Century.
Whilst I understand the so called ‘change of thought’ of a few years back that now makes this generation a ‘contemporary’ rather than a ‘chronological’ one, I cannot see how the guarantee that ‘heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away’ sits with a much vaguer ‘contemporary’ one. If it is not possible to clearly define this generation, then this guarantee makes no sense.
Has anyone heard of any new spins on the ‘guarantee’ aspect, say from COs, DOs, Bethelites, etc, as the official lines have been particularly vague on this point?
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5
Flogging a dead horse?
by eyeslice indakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
however, we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:.
1. buying a stronger whip.
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eyeslice
Dakota tribal wisdom says that when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, we often try other strategies with dead horses, including the following:
1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Say things like, "This is the way we have always ridden this horse."
4. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
5. Arranging to visit other sites to see how they ride dead horses.
6. Increasing the standards to ride dead horses.
7. Appointing a tiger team to revive the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase our riding ability.
9. Comparing the state of dead horses in todays environment.
10. Change the requirements declaring that "This horse is not dead."
11. Hire contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harnessing several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Declaring that "No horse is too dead to beat."
14. Providing additional funding to increase the horse's performance.
15. Do a Cost Analysis study to see if contractors can ride it cheaper.
16. Purchase a product to make dead horses run faster.
17. Declare the horse is "better, faster and cheaper" dead.
18. Form a quality circle to find uses for dead horses.
19. Revisit the performance requirements for horses.
20. Say this horse was procured with cost as an independent variable.
21. Promote the dead horse to a supervisory position.Any other ideas?
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31
WTS says you are free to do what we tell you
by ozziepost inthe may 15 issue of the watchtower contains a discussion of the question: would it be advisable for a true christian to attend a funeral or a wedding in a church?.
the tone of the wts view is set in the very first line our taking part in any form of false religion is displeasing to jehovah and must be avoided.
nonetheless the last line of the article states whatever the situation, the christian should make sure that the decision will not interfere with his preserving a good conscience before god and men.. so apparently it's a personal decision for the jw as to whether he/she will attend a funeral in a church or not.
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eyeslice
I know that many witnesses, including those on the governing body, have visited sites of worship, including old Cathedrals, old churches and pagan temples. Writers for the Awake give accounts of religious ceremonies and festivals that they have obviously observed in lands where they have served as missionaries. I myself have visited many pagan temples and observed their own etiquette, such as removing ones shoes before entering a Hindu or Bahai temple and covering ones head ( as a male) in a Sikh temple.
What is trickier however is entering such a place when a religious ceremony is in progress, and, so the question arises, is physically being at such a place when religious worship is in progress an indication that you are in agreement with it? It is clear from the Bible that being an observer does not necessarily mean that you approve of what is being said or what is going on. Although attending a church wedding or funeral may be frowned upon by some elders, an easy answer is to use the example in the Bible of Naaman. He was the guy cured of leprosy by Elijah and hence became a worshiper of Jehovah. However, his problem was that when he returned to his land, he was required to lead his aged father (?) who leaned on his arm into a pagan temple to worship. As his ‘master’ on his arm bowed down to the false god Rimmon, Naaman would physical have to give way too – bending down himself as it where. Although this would be a disfellowshipping offense with many bodies of elders today, Elijah told Naaman to go in peace. In other words, God knows what is in a person’s heart, and how a situation appears may not always be a reflection of reality.
In the past, I have attended the funerals of route calls and the wedding of worldly colleagues. I cannot see that this in itself is an indication that I agree with what is said or goes on.
2 Kings Chapter 5:
17 And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the LORD.
18 In this thing the LORD pardon thy servant, [that] when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the LORD pardon thy servant in this thing.
19 And he said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way. -
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eyeslice
Check this out -
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6
How All Religions Can Be True
by metatron inif there's one thought that's truly unthinkable or beyond.
an average witnesses' comprehension, it's the thought that.
more than one religion can be true.. in reality, it's not that hard to fathom.. first, start with the thought that god is everywhere and in everything.
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eyeslice
lthough I still practice as a JW, I have for quite some time felt that what we have been taught about God cannot be the whole picture. So I started to read a number of other books about 'Mankind's Search for God' (not just the WTB&TS one!), including C S Lewis's Mere Christianity.
However, one book that I found interesting and useful, though I do not agree with all he has to say, is Deepak Chopra's How to Know God. He lists 7 stages of getting to know God. As Witnesses we have only ever get to know the God of stage 1 and 2, as you can see from the list below;
stage 1: God who protects us like a mother or father, stemming from 'fight or flight'
stage 2: A God who makes laws - a God of crime and punishment
stage 3: A God who bring inner peace - restful awareness
stage 4: A God who encourages humans to reach their full potential - intuiative response
stage 5: A God who inspires to explore and discover - creative response
stage 6: A God who make miracles - visionary response
stage 7: A God who draws us back into unity with him
So, I don't think that the issue is about all religions being true but rather are there good people in all religions. The answer to that must be yes. Every time I served on a Judicial Committee I asked myself, I lived in the times of the Inquisition and was in a similiar position would I have put people to death in the name of Christ? It can be a difficult question to answer but I certain know a number of elders that probably would not have. So the answer is there is good and bad in all religions, including JWs. The question is what sort of persons will our quest to know God make us, liberal minded, loving people, or narrow minded religious bigots?