Posts by AlphaOmega

32

Anyone seen a Memorial talk outline?

by undercover in

jw
friends

if i remember correctly, someone last year posted the memorial talk outline a week or so before the memorial.. does anyone have access to this year's outline?

.

i'm curious because of the new wt article that basically backs away from teaching that the 144,000 were all chosen by 1935. i'd like to see how it is mentioned in this year's talk because, as we all know, the memorial talk is more about the anointed and how they alone partake than it is about jesus..

AlphaOmega

My mistake - they do seem to mention that verse, but neatly miss out the bits about being deceived...

" [Read Matthew 24:3, 6-8]"

Matthew 24:3-8 NWT

[3]

While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?"

[4]

And in answer Jesus said to them: "Look out that nobody misleads YOU;

[5]

for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

[6]

YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

[7]

"For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.

[8]

All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

32

Anyone seen a Memorial talk outline?

by undercover in

jw
friends

if i remember correctly, someone last year posted the memorial talk outline a week or so before the memorial.. does anyone have access to this year's outline?

.

i'm curious because of the new wt article that basically backs away from teaching that the 144,000 were all chosen by 1935. i'd like to see how it is mentioned in this year's talk because, as we all know, the memorial talk is more about the anointed and how they alone partake than it is about jesus..

AlphaOmega

According to the text of the outline for the Special Talk, it begins with lots about 1914 and how the world is unsafer since then. Also, how the Bible Students "knew that 1914 was a significant year".

What they don't say is that they also thought that 1874 was a "significant year" for the same reason !!

The question is also posed that asks, " How, then, is it possible to live in this troubled world and not be terrified?"

Maybe they have forgotten about this verse...

"You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. Don't be alarmed! These things must happen, but they don't mean that the end has come.

[Matthew 24:6 GW]

Also emphasis is on "actively supporting" Christ's brothers (the annointed)

Not sure how that will fit with the masses now being able to consider themselves annointed...

10

The Scofield 1907 Bible

by Sasha in

or it may be the 1908 or 09 version.

anyone out there use it, or recommmend it?

AlphaOmega

I posted those parallel translations from the many Bibles available free with E-Sword. It shows the differences between them

For me, the CEV, NRSV and the MKJV are high on my list.

10

The Scofield 1907 Bible

by Sasha in

or it may be the 1908 or 09 version.

anyone out there use it, or recommmend it?

AlphaOmega

Ecc 10:14

(AMP)

A fool also multiplies words, though no man can tell what will be--and what will happen after he is gone, who can tell him?

(ASV)

A fool also multiplieth words: yet man knoweth not what shall be; and that which shall be after him, who can tell him?

(BBE)

The foolish are full of words; man has no knowledge of what will be; and who is able to say what will be after him?

(Bishops)

(10:13) A foole is full of wordes, and a man can not tell what shall come to passe: who wyll then warne hym of it that shall folowe after hym?

(Contemporary English Version)

They never tire of talking, but none of us really know what the future will bring.

(Complete Apostles' Bible)

A fool moreover multiplies words. No man knows what has been, nor what will be. Who shall tell him what will come after him?

(Darby)

And the fool multiplieth words: yet man knoweth not what shall be; and what shall be after him, who will tell him?

(DRB)

A fool multiplieth words. A man cannot tell what hath been before him: and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

(Easy to Read Version)

A foolish person is always talking {about what he will do}. But no one knows what will happen in the future. No one can tell what will happen later.

(ESV)

A fool multiplies words, though no man knows what is to be, and who can tell him what will be after him?

(Good News Bible)

A fool talks on and on. No one knows what is going to happen next, and no one can tell us what will happen after we die.

(God's Word) He never stops talking. No one knows what the future will bring, or what will happen after death. Who can say!

(JPS) A fool also multiplieth words; yet man knoweth not what shall be; and that which shall be after him, who can tell him?

(King James 2000)

A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

(KJVR)

A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

(LITV)

Yet the stupid one makes many words; a man knows not what they shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

(Modern King James Version)

A fool also makes many words; a man knows not what they shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

(Message)

Fools talk way too much, Chattering stuff they know nothing about.

(New International Version)

and the fool multiplies words. No one knows what is coming-- who can tell him what will happen after him?

(New King James Version)

A fool also multiplies words. No man knows what is to be; Who can tell him what will be after him?

(NLT)

Foolish people claim to know all about the future and tell everyone the details! But who can really know what is going to happen?

(New Revised Standard Version)

yet fools talk on and on. No one knows what is to happen, and who can tell anyone what the future holds?

(New World Translation)

And the foolish one speaks many words. Man does not know what will come to be; and that which will come to be after him, who can tell him?

(The Scriptures '98+) And a fool increases words; a man knows not what shall come to be; and who declares to him what shall be after him?

(Webster)

A fool also is full of words: a man cannot tell what shall be; and what shall be after him, who can tell him?

(Youngs Literal Translation)

And the fool multiplieth words: `Man knoweth not that which is, And that which is after him, who doth declare to him?'

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

AlphaOmega

Are you saying that there was only one festival but the Jews separated it?

From my understanding of the Bible and what you are saying, the festival was 7 evenings (14,15,16,17,18,19,20) 8 if you interpret that God commanded to eat until (and including) "the evening of the 21st". The first night they ate lamb. They had to burn what was left. Then for the remaining days ate bread.

So the Passover SEDER is within the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

Are we in agreement?

7

The 1917 WTB&TS Board Of Directors Incident And The Right Of Reply

by gumb in

the 1917 wtb&ts board of directors incident and the right of reply.

i've been doing quite a bit of research on the internet this past week, and along the way i found a site called pastor-russell.com.

having read a number of the articles on the pages, i thought one in particular might be of interest to some members here:.

AlphaOmega

It's odd but I get the feeling that Rutherford was exactly as you describe. He seemed to take over the organisation for his own ends. His lawyer's training allegedly helped him in both the legal aspects of taking over and is obvious when you read his articles.

I remember hearing many years ago how Rutherford would "speak to Jehovah like a child" in the presence of the Bethel family.

I know that it's not what you meant, but I can imagine Rutherford being arrogant enough to talk to "Jehovah" as if he were a child, pointing his finger at him and telling him off, "You've been a naughty God Jehovah. You got the date for the apocalypse wrong and made us look very silly, go to bed without supper !"

Anyway, you only have to look at Beth Sarim, the Judge's cars and alcohol to see that he wasn't humble !

7

The 1917 WTB&TS Board Of Directors Incident And The Right Of Reply

by gumb in

the 1917 wtb&ts board of directors incident and the right of reply.

i've been doing quite a bit of research on the internet this past week, and along the way i found a site called pastor-russell.com.

having read a number of the articles on the pages, i thought one in particular might be of interest to some members here:.

AlphaOmega

I'm not sure if this is connected, but I've just stumbled on this.

http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/specialinterest.htm

It has scans of related correspondance

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

AlphaOmega

You said: The last possible solution recognizes that the "Passover" was a figure of speech that included all the week of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Maybe last for some but according to scripture: Eze 45:21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten. Pretty good support for something that is in last place?

Because that quote from Kenneth Doig's book says that it is the last possible solution, it doesn't mean that it is the least likely or least significant. I personally think that it is the most likely due to the length of the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

Indeed, I fully agree with your comments about the lamb being eaten ONLY on the first day...

When you sacrifice an animal on the altar, don't offer bread made with yeast. And don't save any part of the Passover meal for the next day.

[Exodus 34:25 CEV]

This passage obviously alludes to the lamb and to the Seder.

The following passage confirms that it was the Passover Meal / Seder that Jesus was eating.

He said to them, "I have wanted so much to eat this Passover meal with you before I suffer!” Luke 22:15

The bread was significant, in that it was ordained by God not to have any yeast in. Yeast represents sin, this new type of bread was to be "sin free"

There does seem to be much confusion between Jews about how long the festival lasts some say 8 days, some say 7. I have not come across anything that jumps out at me regarding the Sabbath. I do however have a good book called "Jewish Family Celebrations" by Arlene Rossen Cardozo, which explains a lot about the merging of two festivals - The Pesah meal and the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

She says that the Pesah meal became the occaision for the Passover Seder (historic, emotional and spiritual aspects of the Exodus) and the week long Festival of Unleavened Bread became symbolic of the practical aspects of the Exodus (fleeing before the bread could rise etc).

If you can't track down a copy, I will scan the relevant pages for you. It is a bit beyond me as it has much to do with different groups of Jews thinking different things.

To sum it up. I cannot agree with the Witness position that the Last Supper was an event separate from the Passover Seder. They seem to think that Judas was present at one and not the other. This linking of the Passover to the "Last Supper" makes a lot fall into place

This sums up my view... " As the Jews practiced these laws and rituals, they would learn through their physical senses [the] spiritual truths concerning their relationship with God." Jesus in the Feasts of Israel”, Richard Booker, Bridge Publishing - 1987

AO

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

AlphaOmega

I have messed up my formatting by cutting and pasting from e-sword. I am not shouting.

It is likely that this "second" Passover refers to the general festival of unleavened bread... Whereas the first "Passover" refers specifically to the Passover Seder.

Luke 22:1 informs us that the Passover was the name given to the week of eating unleavened bread (see Exodus 12:6,18).

Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover.

[Luke 22:1 NKJV]

'In the first

month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. [Exodus 12:18 NKJV]

Excerpt from: Kenneth F. Doig, New Testament Chronology, (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen Press, 1990).

Chapter 21
THE TWO PASSOVERS

Matthew, Mark and Luke said that the Last Supper was the Passover meal and that Jesus was crucified the following day. John appears to have said that Jesus was crucified before the Passover. Can this seeming inconsistency be reconciled?

There are solutions that allow the wording of all four Gospels to be exact and also give clues to the year of Jesus' crucifixion. One solution recognizes that many Jews of the Diaspora observed two days of Passover. The pilgrims may have brought this second day of Passover to Jerusalem, and John is referring to that second observance. A second solution recognizes the different calendars in use in Jerusalem, where sunrise reckoning or sunset reckoning might cause the Passover to fall on different days. A third sees the Last Supper as an observation of Passover according to the solar Jubilee Calendar of the Essenes, and John's Passover according to the lunar sunset calendar. The last possible solution recognizes that the "Passover" was a figure of speech that included all the week of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

How does everyone else manage to format so easily ??????????????

25

Jesus in the Passover - The Origins of the Memorial Meal

by AlphaOmega in

i am sorry about posting a large picture here.

but i've tried to do post it lots of time with smaller separate pictures and jwd kepps giving me an error!.

let's hope that this works.

AlphaOmega

I disagree with the 144k being all jews but they are included , it's actually a spiritual Israel not an ethnic one and God poured his spirit on the believing gentiles as well as jew in the first century . Was doing some reading this week again and did see scripture in which the apostles wrote to the gentiles stating that they are now included with the promise given to Abraham . Really it's all just one big family .

I agree - that is what the parable of the wedding feast tells us. It was offered to the Jews, but they didn't turn up, so it was offered to any passerby (gentiles).

But Revelation still seems to make a distinction with the 144,000 (if taken literally)... They could be Jews or they could be "spiritual" Jews.

I don't think that the 144,000 are meant to be focussed on. I'm not worried either way regarding the 144,000 - that's up to God - it's his business.

I don't think that it make much of a difference, as you say - he pours his spirit out on everyone.

Is this the passage that you read? It still begs the question about "the remnant". It could just refer to the relatively small percentage of people who accept Christ?????

Joel 2:28-32 NKJV

[28]

"And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions.

[29]

And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

[30]

"And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

[31]

The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

[32]

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.