Posts by AlphaOmega

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

AlphaOmega

nevertheless the literature sells, and thats the main idea isn't, as with every publishing house.

Mr H. Simpson... I think that you have hit the proverbial nail on the head... I think that is the essence of their purpose now.

What better business ???
"Selling" literature (printed by free workers) to a captive audience - then "study" that literature to make sure everyone has obtained a copy !

Add to that, the money to be made from investing in land and property (most of which has been build with free labour).

35

Goodbye for now...

by R.F. in

jw
friends

hello all.. first of all i wanted to say thank you for all the help i've received from you all in recent months.

my life has changed completed in such a short amount of time, and some of the things that have happened recently have finally just "hit" me as of late.

i definitely need to take more time to just stop and think, actually accept the changes, and adjust.

AlphaOmega

Robert,

It has been good reading your posts... enjoy your time away... THIS PLACE IS SO ADDICTIVE !!!

Enjoy and be refreshed.

AO

27

Is it "Deception" or are they simply "Misguided"???

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

AlphaOmega

...and here is the analogy :

DON'T SPRAY THE APES

Start with a cage containing five apes. In the cage, hang a banana on a string and put stairs under it. Before long an ape will go up the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as the ape touches the banana, spray all apes with cold water. After a while, another ape makes an attempt with the same result - all the apes are sprayed with cold water. Then turn off the cold water.
Now if another ape tries to climb the stairs for the banana the other apes will try to prevent it even though no water sprays them. Now remove one of the five apes from the cage and replace with a new one. The new ape sees the banana and tries to climb the stairs. To his horror, all of the apes attack him. After another attempt he is again attacked. He knows now that if he attempts to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.
Next, remove another of the original five apes and replace with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third of the original five apes with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked as well. Two of the four apes that beat him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest ape. After replacing the fourth and fifth of the original apes there are no longer any apes that have been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no ape ever again approaches the banana. Why not?
"Because that's the way it's always been around here."
That is how policy begins!!!

27

Is it "Deception" or are they simply "Misguided"???

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

AlphaOmega

Scotsman...

Here is the file that I think contains some information about the "takeover"... or at least the forcing out of the directors... thereby giving Rutherford total control.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/fnwtoh

I have yet to plough through it all.

27

Is it "Deception" or are they simply "Misguided"???

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

AlphaOmega

hey scotty....try and get the douglas walsh case on pdf......the watchtower former vice president hayden covington admitted under oath at a court trial in Edinburgh that they promulgated false prophecy in saying Jesus arrived in 1874......and if their adherents didnt accept it they would be disfellowshipped......I think this is the only ADMISSION of false prophecy in their history.........can someone post the douglas walsh case for scotty if possible?

Ninja - this thread has an earily familiar feel to it Both of "the" trials are located here and can be download free of charge. Walsch - http://www.lulu.com/browse/book_view.php?fCID=762879&fBuyItem=5 Moyle - http://www.lulu.com/browse/book_view.php?fCID=969512&fBuyItem=5

27

Is it "Deception" or are they simply "Misguided"???

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

AlphaOmega

...and this might help too.

Google Books Link

Also here

According to instructions Russell left behind, his successor to the presidency would share power with an editorial committee and with the Watch Tower corporation's board of directors, whom Russell had appointed "for life."

Rare Photo of Board of Directors after Russell's Death
Top: (left to right)J.A. Bohnet, R.J. Martin, Giovanni DeCecca, F.H. Robinson, C.J. Woodworth
Bottom: A.H.MacMillan, J.F.Rutherford, WE. VanAmburg
Joseph Franklin ("Judge") Rutherford soon set about concentrating all organizational authority in his own hands. A skilled lawyer who had served as Russell's chief legal advisor, he combined legal prowess with what opponents undoubtedly saw as a Machiavellian approach to internal corporate politics. Thus he used a loophole in their appointment to unseat the majority of the Watch Tower directors without calling a membership vote. And he even had a subordinate summon the police into the Society's Brooklyn headquarters offices to break up their board meeting and evict them from the premises. (Faith on the March by A. H. Macmillan, pp. 78-80)
After securing the headquarters complex and the sect's corporate entities, Rutherford turned his attention to the rest of the organization. By gradually replacing locally elected elders with his own appointees, he managed to transform a loose collection of semi-autonomous democratically-run congregations into a tight-knit organizational machine run from his office. Some local congregations broke away, forming such Russellite splinter groups as the Chicago Bible Students, the Dawn Bible Students, and the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement, all of which continue to this day. But most Bible Students remained under his control, and Rutherford renamed them "Jehovah's Witnesses" in 1931, to distinguish them from these other groups.

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/wthistory.html

27

Is it "Deception" or are they simply "Misguided"???

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

From my understanding of things, I seem to remember that Rutherford broke the conditions laid down in Russell's will - and that he then sacked the board of directors at the time - giving himself total control.

I will dig out some PDFs that should shed some more light on it. I would like to read more about the issue too, as I say, I have some PDFs at home and will post them here later this evening along with the analogy that fits that they are "deceived deceivers" and "captives of a concept"...

...basically, it goes like this...

... they were lied to...
they acceted the lie...
now they teach the lie...
this continues...
until no one is alive that remembers the original lie.

AO

This may help as an overview... http://www.jwfiles.com/rutherford.htm

27

Is it "Deception" or are they simply "Misguided"???

by The Scotsman in

jw
friends

as many of you know i have been looking abit closer at the teachings of the wtbts or is it the fds or is it the governing body, its all abit cloudy now.

anyway my point is this - is it deception (a deliberate attempt to mislead people) or is it that they are misguided (think they are right but are not).

my own opinion - i think they are in the middle somewhere.

AlphaOmega

I was asked the same question recently by a Witness...

In my opinion, originally (in Russell's day) they were misguided, then the deception and self serving crept in with Rutherford's "hostile" takeover of the organisation.

Nowdays, the Watchtower is stuck trying to undo or "forget" Rutherford's doctrines.

So, I imagine deception remains - as to know the truth, but mislead people is deception.

However, maybe nowdays they are deluded - as many of the Elders aren't aware of the murky history of the organisation.
I have an analogy of this that I will post when I get home.