welcome, glad you and your mind is out of there. I know abuse happens to alot of people, witness or not, what makes it sad from the witness point of view is the hypocrasy of it all, they put themselves forward as a loving religion when they and many of their members are not loving at all.
bluebell
JoinedPosts by bluebell
-
31
Time to tell my story...
by mind my own ini joined a few weeks ago and have been adding my comments etc.
pioneer or i'm out.
pioneer.
-
-
-
16
Just ran into a DFd Witness trying to "come back"
by Shawn10538 ini invited him to come inside the coffee shop where i am working (on a book about jws) and he came in saying he had to make it back to the convention center for his assembly, but he was very leary.
he came in and i invited him to sit down but he woudn't.
he said he couldn't answer any questions because he was disfellowshipped.
-
-
bluebell
i never liked to debate - cos i didnt believe the False myself deep down even though i thought i did :)
-
23
I've made up my mind :-)
by Redbeard inhi everyone, don't know if you remember me, i posted a topic a while ago because i was in need of advice about what to do in my life - so to all you who took your time and posted caring replys and good advice, i just want to say that i've made up my mind - i'm continuing my fade for the fourth month and i'm gone from the borg for good.
if some elders decide to stick their nose in it, i'll shut the door myself.
there's no future in staying in there for the sake of anyone else, lying to yourself and everyone else.
-
-
bluebell
well done matey arrrr. we used to swear like pirates at work - do the V's with fingers bent down cos they'd been cut off with a cutlass lol.
good look with your fade.
-
16
6 Million People
by OnTheWayOut inthe number of jw's is between 6 and 7 million people.
many ex-jw's would love to see the .
news make a bigger deal of jw-related scandals and news items.
-
-
bluebell
Last year, it was announced that "World of Warcraft" (an online multiplayer role-playing game) reached 6 million people
customers. Do most of us even know what that is?I know! aka as WoW :) but i played city of heroes, it was supposedly better.
-
19
Does anyone remember when women could be servants in the congregation?
by Bonnie_Clyde inthis was before the elder arrangement.
in the 1950's our congregation servant's wife handled the accounts--by appointment from the society.
in the early 1960's it was a practice to allow a sister to handle the congregation book study if there was a shortage of brothers.
-
-
bluebell
I remember once when I was a little kid--one Tuesday noght only women showed up at the book study, except for the conductor. He told his wife she could read the paragraphs but needed to find a head covering. She didn't have a hat so she dug an old kleenex out of her purse and sat there through the evening with a snotrag on her head.
you just made me snort my drink!
-
13
1984 - Some Quotes... long so no pressure to read it all :-)
by AlphaOmega ini have just read the book (and seen the film) "1984", by george orwell.
i would like to share a few quotes with you all.
at this moment, for example, in 1984 (if it was 1984), oceania was at war with eurasia and in alliance with eastasia.
-
-
bluebell
Eventaully a compromise was reached and all agreed "the brothers are tired and exhausted because quite frankly they all expected the new system long before now"
but of course the society has NEVER taught that the new system was ever going to come at any particular date and the brothers just got carried away - they hadn't all got the 1millionth copy of the new light dictionary if they thought that the society had preached dates!
-
45
What Are your Favorite Hobbies? Things you do for Fun ?
by flipper inhello folks.
just a little continuation thread of another one i did.
would be interesting to see what fun things people like to do, so we can get to know one another better.
-
-
bluebell
I am learning Spanish - did my entry level last year and am doing level 1 this year
My hubby loves rugby and I at first went along just to have something to do together. We joined the supporter club and although I do enjoy rugby slightly more now i understand it a bit but i still mainly go for the social side and have made a number of friends.
Dragon boating: some of the rugby supporters do dragon boating and I have joined them, its good fun and again something social plus keeps you fit.
reading: i love books, used to read for escapism as a child
-
17
Are you a CRACKED POT?
by Terry inare you a cracked pot?.
that may be the best indication of why you have/don't have the urge to worship!.
worship is man's natural reaction to god...if...god has made him a certain way.. otherwise, the man who experiences no reaction to god (or a negative one) is a vessal made for destruction.. in romans 9 paul goes on an on about god being like a potter who makes some pots that aren't worth keeping and other pots that are worth using.. we are one pot or the other!.
-
-
bluebell
thats how i used to feel - that god didn't want me. then i realised that i didn't want him either so im okay!
-
33
What's reasonable to expect on a first date?
by serendipity ini've been on online dating sites for a while, have exchanged emails with over 100 guys (politely saying "thanks, but no thanks" to the vast majority) and went on dates with a few.
i'm generally disappointed in the emails these guys sent and have been disappointed in the dates.
i'm not sure if the problem is with my expectations or if there is just a lack of communications skills and courtesy among people.
-
-
bluebell
based solely on his idea of discipline and what he thinks of disfellowshipping i would say no. as for talking for 4 hours - i unfortunatley have done this out of nerves, ask free2think!
-
16
How to fade successfully?
by Maddie ini want to fade from the org but i am not really sure how many meetings i should miss to begin with.
is it best to decrease them gradually or go once a month?
i have a son and baby grand daughter that are jw's and belong to a different congregation.
-
-
bluebell
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/34518/1.ashx
the art of fading by expatbrit :
In October of 2000, I faded away from the Watchtower. Like most people, I have family and friends who are JW's (including my wife and parents). Fading is generally the best method for people in that situation. With the recent exposure of the Watchtower's coverup of child abuse, I think that there might be many JW's who will now be convinced that the WT is not the true religion, but a high-control cult. They may be ready to take the final step of moving away from the Watchtower, but be held in by family and social ties.
So, for those who have gone through the process of fading, what worked and what didn't work?. Here are my thoughts on fading techniques. Some of these I used successfully, and some I wish I had thought of in hindsight. Feel free to add and disagree!
Preparation for fading.
Firstly, it must be acknowledged that fading is not a rapid process. We are talking years rather than months for the entire process. In fact, certain aspects of fading may never end. Some preparation can lessen the stress and hassle later.
Avoid a hostage situation
Therefore, before beginning to fade away, it is important to start cutting as many ties as possible. Most JW's are heavily involved with other JW's socially and sometimes in business ventures too. Obviously, the more ties of this nature, the harder to fade without others chasing you or checking up on you, or using these ties to hold you hostage within the organisation against your will. So a gradual process of withdrawal from business ventures with JW's, and replacing these with non-JW arrangements will give you far greater freedom. It will mean that you are not a financial hostage to a JW boss or partner.
Socially, it is important to begin building a new non-JW network of friends and acquaintances before losing your JW network. So joining clubs or hobby groups, going out with people at work, and generally increasing contact with people is a good idea. This will make it harder to make you an emotional hostage when the time comes.
The general rule is always to operate from a position of strength, and never advance unless these flanks are covered. Even your JW family are included in this. Reducing some contact with them now, lessening conversations about spiritual things now, will pay dividends later.
You must also come to terms with the fact that your fade may not work, and this will have serious consequences. Bringing yourself to accept the possibility of these consequences can take a long time. I knew by the end of 1996 that Watchtower doctrines were a bunch of dingo's kidneys, yet it took several years to accept that leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses might mean losing my wife, my family and most of my current lifestyle. Only once I was sure that I could survive such an eventuality did I feel ready to commence the fade.
All of this must be done gradually, so as not to arouse suspicions and concerns in local elders or JW family members. It could take months or years, depending on individual circumstances. Naturally, there will be a lot of frustration involved. After all, you don't believe the WT is God's organisation any more, or you wouldn't be wanting to leave. I found it extremely difficult to sit through meetings, go in service, give talks etc, not believing in any of it any more. I felt a hypocrite. Often I would go home from meetings with a stomach twisted by the frustration of not being able to say what I really felt. But this is necessary to a successful fade, and so must be accepted. Often I would spend the long meetings planning and reviewing the next steps of my exit, so as to emphasize to myself that this was not a permanent process, and that the frustration served a purpose.
Once you have your other life in place, then the real fade can begin.The fade
The hollow person
Again a general rule is that the better you are known, the harder it is to fade. This is why many people, including myself, have found that moving location is a great help to fading. The best scenario here of course is just to disappear, but if you are in a position to do that you probably don't need to fade out slowly anyway. Occasionally, people have managed to get hold of their record cards, or arranged to have them sent to the address of a helpful friend. This way the new congregation secretary has no idea that you are now in his territory.
Even if this is not possible, there are advantages to moving location. In my case, we moved into another territory. I could have stopped going immediately, but I felt that this would merely have aroused more curiousity in the local elders. They would have called around to see the new publishers to encourage them. What I did was to attend meetings and service for a month in a lacklustre fashion, being there but not really getting involved. After that, I made meeting attendance sporadic for a couple of months, and then stopped altogether. This meant that I had introduced myself to the elders and made the impression in their minds of being semi-weak and therefore not worthy of much attention. The idea being that, by the time they noticed I was gone, some time had passed and it was much easier for them to let it go than chase me. Given that I have had only one halfhearted visit in the two years since, it seems that this has indeed been the case.
Remember that elders are busy people, and use that to your advantage. It may be possible to wait for an advantageous time when there are other problems in the congregation or with their own families distracting the most pro-active elders.
If you cannot move, then the fade should be stretched out. Again, you must create the impression in the minds of the JW's that you are weak, bordering on bad association (without actually going so far as to attract unwelcome attention). Make it a mild relief for them when you dont turn up for service because of your slightly worldly talk. Become unreliable with ministry school talks and any other duties. Slowly resign these duties, but don't give any concrete doctrinal reasons for doing so. Using poor health is a good excuse. Another is hinting at personal problems with other individuals in the congregation (without letting on who they actually are).
Play the Watchtower's game, but not by their rules
What about family? If you live with them it will be virtually impossible to do all this without them asking questions. Again, disagreeing with doctrine or expressing doubts about the governing body will be counterproductive and may result in your family involving the elders. I made the mistake of having several intense discussions with my wife about the changed generation doctrine and my doubts concerning the Watchtower's competence in science and history. It accomplished nothing but bad feeling. Fortunately we were distracted with moving at the time, or she may well have involved the elders.
A tactic I found useful when under interogation from my parents was simply to say that "I needed a break to re-examine my beliefs and study to make sure I knew the truth." This is suitably vague. It uses JW trigger phrases like "the truth" which reassures them you still are still part of the collective (and how could you ever discover that The Truth is not the truth?). It also gives them hope for the future which allows them to postpone forcing an unpleasant confrontation now, and as you know, JW's are highly conditioned to indefinite waiting for the fulfillment of their hopes for the future.
Another thing that has worked for me is to say that "everyone should have the freedom to practice or not practice a particular religion without being persecuted for it, which is what the Watchtower has often fought for." Turning Watchtower techniques and buzzwords around in this way will often head off pressure.
Recognise that it is extremely unlikely that your family will follow you out. There are success stories of this kind, but the majority of the time this is not the case. Not only that, but be prepared for some unpleasant and hurtful comments. For instance, it is likely you will be accused of being "materialistic" or "arrogant" or "bitter". You might be told that you will never be truly happy or successful outside of The Truth. Developing a thick skin is absolutely necessary when this happens. Responding in kind will merely lead to the failure of your fade.
After the fade
You must accordingly be perfect
It is entirely possible that after you leave the Watchtower you will be periodically unhappy and bitter. And for good reasons! You are dealing with enormous changes and stresses! Fortunately these negatives tend to be shortlived, and more than offset by the freedom you now enjoy from continual fear and guilt conditioning. But, it is a sad fact that allowing your family or former JW friends to see your down times will not be a good thing. For them, it spells o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y. They will see an opportunity to try and get you back into the Watchtower, and will use emotional leverage to this end. If you're depressed, they'll remind you how you can only have true happiness in The Truth. Lonely? Satan's world is a cold place full of hate. Sad? Think how sad Jehovah is not to see you at the meetings! Fed up at something in the news? Don't you want to see all these problems solved? All of these have been used by my family when they think they spot a chink in my armour, and the fact that such comments merely added to my temporary negativity didn't even enter their minds.
To avoid this emotional manipulativeness, you cannot be anything but happy, purposeful and confident around your JW family. Instead, use your new worldly friends (who hopefully have a far more benign agenda) as your ranting board. Even better, join an xJW board like this one and rant away to people who understand!
A final reason to be Superperson is to prevent your family getting their Watchtower conditioning enforced. If they see you unhappy, they will think it confirms what the Watchtower tells them about people who leave. On the other hand, when they see that you do not turn into a spitting, raging, psychopathic delinquent, it may just introduce a little independent thought into their heads that "maybe people can be happy outside."
Define boundaries
I am married to a staunch JW. Even the child abuse scandal has made little impression. How is it possible to have a tolerable and even happy relationship in that situation? A very important thing I've discovered is to enforce a no-fly zone over certain subjects i.e. the Watchtower. I don't try to pressure her to leave if she doesn't try and pressure me to go back. I will respect her choice if she respects mine. When the subject is mentioned, it will be mentioned impersonally as a matter of general knowledge or interest e.g. I have told her about the Panorama programme and showed her the BBC website, but went only so far as "there it is if you want to watch it". Not "you have to watch this expose of the paedophile paradise in Brooklyn!" Is this sweeping the whole thing under the carpet and not dealing with it? Probably, but so what? If it's comfortable under the carpet, why not leave it there?
What if, for whatever reason, the elders chase? My personal conviction is not to see them. They have no authority over me that I do not give them. If I happen to see them in everyday life I smile and move on, and do not get drawn into conversation. If they call I will be not-at-home. If they phone, I screen all calls through my answering service and will not reply. They will need to put forth considerable effort to get me, and since I am not being overtly "opposed" it is simply not worth their limited time. All elder bodies are different of course, and at the end of the day, if they decide to DF or DA you, there's not much that can be done. But, if there has been an obvious witchhunt, your family will see it. I have seen several cases where a JW family recognised the injustice of the witchhunt, and consequently maintained contact despite the WT's shunning directives.
The sapper
This does not mean that there is nothing you can do to try and make your family think. Some gentle involvement in activities with pleasant "worldly" people will show them that most non-JW's are nice people, not as the WT illustrations make them out to be. Recommend some interesting books and articles (I subscribe to The Economist, an excellent magazine) that do not mention the Watchtower specifically, but happen to touch upon well established historic or scientific knowledge that shows the Watchtower's teachings to be a crock. I've found that my wife has an amusing liking for Arnold Schwarzenegger action movies, most of which are R rated. We enjoy them together! We go to see movies like Harry Potter and enjoy them, and I know that the irrational demon-hysteria about such movies irritates the heck out of her. In time, I'm hopeful that my family will start to think for themselves, but I will not force the issue, because to do so will lead to slamming doors.
Finally, these are my thoughts only, based on my own experiences. Obviously, there are far too many variables to cover everything. But so far my fade has been a definite success, and I'm now starting to build a rewarding non-WT life while maintaining relationships with my JW family. While not tormenting myself with unfulfilled expectations, I have some hopes of my family leaving the WT one day. One thing I do know for certain: leaving the Watchtower is worth all the effort. Life in the Watchtower is not life, it is a wasteland they have labelled peace.
Expatbrit