Posts by lrkr

69

Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff in

this is a complex question, and i just want to get a discussion started on the message of jehovah's witnesses and how it relates to their adventist roots, and esp calvinism.. bear with me, i will try to be concise.. we all know that while jehovah's witnesses like to deny adventist roots, that it is clear that according to them, the man jesus selected to get the whole thing started, c t russell, was heavily influenced by adventist ideas, esp the (adventist) idea that has really never left them; the idea that somehow, a time date or period can be inferred from the bible if you read certain scriptures through an adventist lens.

(thus, the 2520 years, 7 gentile times, etc.).

so while this is relatively well known, there is a concept that jehovah's witnesses teach against, yet practice.

lrkr

I also thought a little about the Calvinist influence on JW's. It seems to me that the concept of the "elect" has strongly influenced JW thought. JW's acknowledge that you can sin, fall, turn your back on God (like all of us terrible apostates)- so there really cannot be real "predestination" - but they still carry that notion that they were selected, elected, out of all the religions on the planet to be the one voice of God. That seems to me to be Calvinistic. This sense that the JW's are priviledged above all others to have the true and only understanding of the Bible- even calling their way of belief- "the truth". The anointed (144,000) are ordained by God- selected, to be kings and priests- no merit system whatsoever- you are just chosen- no one knows why or how- just by Gods divine will you are somehow the only ones.

Seems different from Catholicism or other protestant denominations idea that all men receive "grace" from God. That all are his children and deserving of mercy.

Just a few theological thoughts- no disrespect meant xjw4evr.

My personal beliefs are better expressed by this quote: We are all atheists about most of the gods that societies have ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. – Richard Dawkins

49

my mum taught us very valuable lessons about Jehovah in her special way. Any other parents out there as psycho?

by God Chick in

jw
friends

ok before i start i know my mum was um "special" and had some, well...... bizzare training ideas.. .

i was one of 7 kids, dad didnt help much coz he was sick, so my mum was left to run the 'ship' and she did it with an iron fist.. .

we were never late for a meeting we sat, parents and 2 kids in one row the other 5 in row in front.

lrkr

This is an amazing and harrowing thread. Of course we knew about the wooden spoon- mostly used on the youngest family members. The belt, etc. I really think someone should put together a compilation of these stories for a book or website. This abuse should be highlighted and shown to the world. I have tremendous guilt over insisting that my 3 year old sit quietly in the book study. I spanked him- but without spoons, or cords or anything else. (Still I shudder) Thank god we got out when he was about 7. We have enjoyed being semi normal since then.

Thanks for the courage everyone had to talk about this. So sad.

9

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-24-10 WT Study (BROTHERLY LOVE)

by blondie in

jw
friends

review comments will be in red or headed by comments.

"--john 13:34,35.. comments.

fellow believers.. comments.

lrkr

Only JW's could figure out a way to use a discussion about love to enact some new regulations- cell phone use, ipod use, etc.

32

More Misc Ramblings About Gilead

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

honestly, i can't remember if i told some of this already, so if i repeat myself, please allow me this.

i am practicing for old age..... it is now 6 years since i got the "long form" application for gilead, with over 120 questions to answer.

5 years since i got my notice that we were selected to attend the 119th class of gilead from april-september 2005.. prior to this, i really wanted to be a co. i won't belabor the point about my ex jw wife wanting to go overseas, but suffice to say, her goal won out over my goal.

lrkr

Don't apologize- the word "duped" says it all. It doesn't have any reflection on your personality or inner strengh or anything else. Your on a board where we all know that.

Did you ever experience the feeling where you were encouraging someone about how great Gilead is and how it is such a great goal to have- and you realized that you were lying and that it is really pretty miserable. I experienced that several times as a Bethelite. Telling some kid- "Yeah come to Bethel you'll have so much fun- it is so great!" and meanwhile thinking- yeah- if you consider poverty and lonliness fun!! The org has a way of majorly mind-f'ing you.

I cant really identify with the foreign country stuff- but your stories about morning worship- so true!

Also- did you notice the incredible level of "Stepford wives" shallowness among most bethelites?? I visited some time after I left and was shocked about how separated from reality the whole place is.

7

What's the difference between "Watch Tower" of PA and "Watchtower" NY?

by paul from cleveland in

what is the reason for being incorporated in two states and why is the pa corp. two words (watch tower) and the ny corp. one word (watchtower)?

thanks.

lrkr

My understanding was that the NY corporation was originally a way for Russell to make sure his wife (who was getting divorced from him) could not get any of the assets in the corporation (that they had built together.) The modern explanation is as AT Jeff states above- but in the book "The Four Presidents" it seems to insinuate that the move was actually just a move to hide assets.

83

Apostate Brainstorming Session

by AllTimeJeff in

i have been meaning to bring this up for a long time.. sometimes, i think we (former jw's) who are very rightly concerned about all the lies of the governing body have some great ideas about how to expose jehovah's witnesses.. some of us have very passionate and distinct ideas.

not a few of us have websites with our own personalities evident.. i don't wish this to get personal.

even if i disagree with some presentations or rhetoric of some, i know that it is sincere.

lrkr

Personally, the free minds website and Ray Franz books were the most powerful items I came across. I think everyone will be touched in a different way and so there is a need for every possible type of publicity. I think there can never be enough websites, discussion groups, books, articles, comments on newpaper pages about witnesses, blogs, facebook postings, etc. In marketing we say you have to touch someone 7 times to make your point. So the more stuff that is out there- the better.

Obviously, you have to be very careful not to trigger the defense mechanisms of JWs- so common sense, facts and non-adversarial methods are usually more effective. It is also helpful if people come across apostate information when they are not looking for it- which is why I say commenting on news media websites when they have an article about JWs is a great idea. JWs circulate links to these articles all the time.

PS- ATJ- we know people in common- PM me sometime and I'll elaborate.

10 page book reports

by lrkr in

just a memory.

when i was growing up- i was in the school band- played the trumpet.

our band marched in 2 parades a year- thanksgiving day and st. patricks day.

lrkr

Just a memory. When I was growing up- I was in the school band- played the trumpet. Our band marched in 2 parades a year- Thanksgiving day and St. Patricks day. The rule was that any kid who didn't march had to write a 10 page book report instead. So guess what I did??

Every spring and every fall I spent a few days in the library and did a 10 page book report. No marching in pagan holiday parades for this good little JW boy.

No wonder I quit band in the 7th grade!!

221

Why do Ex-JWs start celebrating pagan Christmas?

by DubR in

hiya guys and gals.

im not trying to be self-righteous but i want to understand the thought process of someone who knows the origins of christmas, but starts celebrating it (putting up christmas tree, exchanging wrapped gifts; repeating merry christmas to everyone they see in the month of december)??

it seems very silly to me (imo) after knowing how and why christmas was created (to cater to pagans sun worship and convert to christianity)!!

lrkr

and Happy Festivus

for the rest of us.

5

Letting Go of God on SHOWTIME this week

by tinker in

if you have showtime channels everybody should watch this program, letting go of god.

raised roman catholic, comic julia sweeney chronicles her conversion to atheism.. it will be on today at 5:30, again thur at 5:00pm.

the show is insightful but also entertaining.

lrkr

I stumbled on this show last week. Really great! Wife was irritated by the outright athiesm at the end- but that's because she's still a believer (not a JW- but a "theist")- told me I just liked watching material that confirms my beliefs.

16

Has any other GB member achieved a university degree aside from Lloyd Barry?

by DNCall in

jw
friends

i can't think of one.

anyone .

.

lrkr

How about "Judge" Rutherford. I'm guessing he had a college degree.