Posts by ANewLeif

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

You didn't disagree with me, you arrogant ....

You agreed with me, remember? Do I have to copy and paste it for you? You also tried to change the subject. That was very disrespectful of you. If you had disagreed with me and posted your disagreements you would have been discussing my thread subject. You wouldn't have been changing my thread subject to another.

Disagreement is not disrespect. Changing the thread subject by "broadening the discussion" in such a way that discussion is raised which is totally off-topic is disrespect.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Terry,

You began, "Respectfully..."

I disagree. Your post was off topic. You knew your post was off topic. I posted this topic in the section I chose and with the subject line I chose to prevent there being any confusion on the part of people who like to "expand the scope of discussions" which is euphemeistic for turning a discussion into one they prefer to have.

You closed, "I sought to display respect for you as the one posing the topic."

Feigning respect while commiting a disrespectful act is rather blatant disrespect. It is even disrespectful that you believed I would fall for the pretense of respect. Your attempt to convert this discussion is not any kind of respect I am familiar with ever experiencing before.

I do agree with your perfect characterization of your post. Rhetoric is what leapt to my mind as well. Perhaps I am better suited to forums where posters don't bully others into considering their contrarian views on every forum section and in every thread subject. Maybe I should just take my leave.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Terry,

Maybe I should be more clear. The reason I chose the points I chose is because they are not interpretive. The associated Scriptures directly state what happened and what happened does not fit with JW dogma.

1 - Persons today baptized by the criteria of the Scriptures are considered invalidly baptized by JWs.

2 - JWs who unrepentantly attend other religious services are branded apostates and shunned.

3 - JWs who unrepentantly celebrate holidays (observe days) forbidden by JWs or engage in customs forbidden by JWs are likewise shunned.

4 - JWs who use their own logic and reasoning on spiritual matters are accused of everything from running ahead to apostasy. If they dare spread their thinking they are condemned as apostates and shunned.

5 - A JW who unrepentantly speaks to Jesus in a fashion similar to that of Stephen would be shunned.

That is why your expansion falls so far outside the scope. The points I raised do not require interpretation. They only require reading what the Bible says. Christians did accept Scripture as valid, JWs claim to do so, so any challenge to its authority in this thread is also off topic.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I am using the reference point chosen by JWs. I didn't choose it, they did. This forum is to discuss Jehovah's Witnesses. This thread is certainly for that purpose. Within that narrow context (defined by the thread and the forum) I use their narrow reference point.

How else would someone hope to counter their intellectual abuses? Do you think any ardent JW would agree with the argument in your posts?

You show your hubris by making a request and then assuming permission. You do not have permission to expand the discussion scope, if you please.

ANL

20

IYO, what r the most problematic scripture(s) for dubs?...or lack there of

by *jeremiah* in

hey everyone,...in your opinion, (1) what scripture or passages in the bible completely go against jdub doctrine?

scriptures that the dubs really can't answer or really can't fit into their equation,...thus, they go unnoticed or avoided.

(2) or,...what scriptural proof should be in the bible to back their doctrinal claims.

ANewLeif

Marcel,

If you asked a JW what would happen to them if the did go to a Jewish synagogue for Sabbath services and then showed them where the Apostle Paul did that as his custom, what reasoning line could they use to justify the discipline their religion metes out?

I don't understand how your response about reaching people even addressed the issue. The issue is that the First Century Christians could attend services of other religions and JWs cannot.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Terry,

You asked, "I wonder if we might broaden the discussion a bit?"

No. But you don't seem to care.

The topic, "Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?"

Your interpretation of "a bit" is quite a lot beyond mine. Please demonstrate how your post relates to the topic or remove the parts that do not (in my opinion that would be everything but the question you asked at the beginning).

ANL

20

IYO, what r the most problematic scripture(s) for dubs?...or lack there of

by *jeremiah* in

hey everyone,...in your opinion, (1) what scripture or passages in the bible completely go against jdub doctrine?

scriptures that the dubs really can't answer or really can't fit into their equation,...thus, they go unnoticed or avoided.

(2) or,...what scriptural proof should be in the bible to back their doctrinal claims.

ANewLeif

Marcel,

I agree that the understanding they apply to Matthew 28:19, 20 is impractical. I was simply stating that since it doesn't make sense to understand that every Christian must baptize others it also doesn't make sense to understand that every Christian must preach to others.

Contextually, the two actions are equivalent in imperative sense. Whoever the responsiblity was placed on became responsible for both actions to an equal degree.

JWs try to separate the two actions, making everyone responsible for part of it and severely restricting who they allow to be responsible for the other part. That is an impossible way to understand the instruction.

A JW is forbidden from sharing in the religious activities of any other faith. The First Century Christians frequently did what JWs are disallowed from doing. Even in reaching unbelievers they are forbidden from sharing any religious observances with them. If a JW today decided to go to a Jewish synagogue for Sabbath services like the apostles did, such a JW would be subjected to a Judicial Committee if their attendance at a false religious service became known.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I am non-denominational, Pubsinger.

But the lack of denominational distinction among "Christian" churches is not evident among JWs, at all. For them to attend any other religion's services is considered an act of apostasy. If the offender is unrepentant they can be severely shunned for it.

You wrote, "Secretly nobody believed that the 7 trumpet blasts ... Secretly they believe that [Jesus] is [their mediator]."

Can someone be a secret Christian, Pubsinger? How does that work, exactly? That is a new one for me. I never even considered the possibility that such a person could exist. Do these "secret" Christians teach other people that Jesus is not their mediator while believing that he is? I'm stymied how that could possibly result in honesty or integrity without exposing their secret beliefs and being punished.

ANL

57

Jesus never used the name Jehovah???

by Mrs Smith in

my hubby and i have been doing a lot of bible reading are we correct by saying that jesus never once used the name jehovah?

if the name is so important surely jesus would have used it?

the jw's say that jesus was the greatest teacher and that we should follow his example so why are they using a name that jesus did not once refer to.

ANewLeif

For instance, when Jesus taught his disciples how to pray it would have been a perfect opportunity to use the name, if his disciples were meant to do so. But he didn't. (Matthew 6:9) He used the substitute "Father" and then asked that the Father's name be sanctified. But he didn't use the name.

I think that is the best evidence on this subject I could ever ask for. He didn't even use the name when teaching them how to pray. But JWs will use the Anglican name "Jehovah" 40 times in a 2 minute prayer.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I submit for you consideration that you were not a JW. You were a Christian. When you discovered that, you left. Otherwise you would still be a JW.

I know lots of people who aren't JWs. They just don't know it. When they find out they are not JWs they will leave.

ANL