ANewLeif

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Posts by ANewLeif

• 
  45

  Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

  by FireNBandits in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you a pharisee?

  have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

  (for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

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  ANewLeif

  I agree, Narkissos. Judaizers won out. Which is why there is so much more in common with Judaism in most "Christian" religions (which I believe to be an oxymoronic expression) than there is in common with the actual philosophy of Jesus as related in the gospels.

  You wrote, "If this is the case, his relationship to 'Christianity' is just as open a question as his relationship to 'Judaism' or 'Islam'."

  In terms of religions, yes. In terms of philosophy any individual can nominally be any religion and still be a Christian. But that does not grant Christianity to the religion. If the religion does not match the philosophy it isn't a Christian religion. In my opinion, no religion matches the philosophy; the fact of creeds and dogma prevent the grace of God from having room to operate. Religion creates a new "mountain" where people are encouraged to worship. (John 4) It gets in the way of what Jesus taught.

  ANL
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  61

  Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

  by ANewLeif in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

  (acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

  christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

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  ANewLeif

  There seems to be some confusion as to exactly who is being discussed. The religion has intentionally tried to blur the line between individual "pew sitters" and the organization behind the name.

  Pubsinger,

  A professed Baptist who doesn't believe the Baptist creed isn't a Baptist. A JW who doesn't believe JW dogma isn't a JW. Even the JW dogma states that as a truth. Any individual in any church who doesn't subscribe to the basic tenets of the church may in fact be a Christian but, if so, they are not the denomination they pretend to be.

  In other words, anyone who is actually a JW is definitely not a Christian. There may be many who go to JW meetings and appear to be dutiful JWs who are in fact Christians. Such people aren't reallyJWs. If someone adheres to doctrine that prevents them from being Christian they are not Christian.

  If someone is a JW (not just professed), they are not a Christian. And vice-versa.

  ANL
• 
  61

  Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

  by ANewLeif in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

  (acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

  christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

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  ANewLeif

  "Well" said, zack. John 4 contains what I believe to be clinching proof that Jesus was not preaching a religion, but was preaching a relationship and a philosophy.

  ANL
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  45

  Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

  by FireNBandits in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you a pharisee?

  have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

  (for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

  1. 
  2. 
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  ANewLeif

  Thank you, Narkissos, for that clarification of your point.

  I do not think the Nazarenes ever considered themselves Christians. They seem to have regarded themselves as Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah, not as Christians who believed they had to retain Jewish traditions and uphold the Law of Moses. At least, that seems to be a reasonable summation of the viewpoint of Epiphanius.

  As I understand things, since there is no clearly identifiable creed for the Ebionites it is difficult to categorize the Ebionites as having any particular set of beliefs to which they all adhered. Not that I believe this would be necessary for Christians, in any case, but I think while discussing a religion that claims to be the one and only path to salvation and claims that the Authorized Version's canon is the source of their claim, it is odd to inject a group that did not hold that view as a counterpoint. In the case of Islam, they hold the The Noble Qur'an to be the central authoritative text and the same argument applies. Islamists teach that any who do not adopt Islam, as the path to salvation, are destined for destruction.

  It seems that in the case of both the Ebionites and the Nazarenes there was more belief held in common with Pharisees than with Christ. Many "Christian" religions today have the same problem, including Jehovah's Witnesses. Christ did not start a religion. Christ started a spiritual movement from which religions sprang.

  I tend to single out Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum because ... that is what I thought this forum is for.

  ANL
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  61

  Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

  by ANewLeif in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

  (acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

  christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

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  ANewLeif

  Pubsinger,

  Corporate salvation is impossible. I agree with you there. However, that isn't what JWs teach. They teach that the organization (Corporation) is the modern day ark that corresponds to Noah's.

  When examining something outside myself and my own viewpoints I find it helpful to try and see things from the perspective of the thing I am examining. Looking from inside the JW mindset, outward--adopting the world view that the religion tries to get the unsuspecting to adopt (often successfully)--is the only way I know to find out how to help them break free from the mental bonds that hold them tied to a religion as opposed to a relationship.

  Jesus advocated a relationship, not a religion. He advocated spirituality, not a religion. But it is impossible to get a JW to that point without first bringing them 'round to question what they know to be true.

  I understood that this forum was to discuss Jehovah's Witnesses, but it seems I am redirected to discussing other religions and religious belief systems at every turn. I don't mind doing that, I find it invigorating. But I don't want anyone to lose sight of what my primary intent is on this forum.

  I am primarily here to dicuss Jehovah's Witnesses, that is the stated purpose of the forum and I refuse to be bullied into silence simply because I think their religion is a load of horsesh** and that their adherents make horsesh** peddlers of themselves by strewing the manure around neighborhoods. Of course the price they ask is reasonable; for the low, low price of the rest of your life you can have an empty promise!

  ANL
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  20

  Are there other religions that don't go to millitary service?

  by GBSJG in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the argument that jws are the only religion that doesn't go in military service is one i hear frequently.

  but is this really so does anyone know any other religion that doesn't go to war?

  perhaps the mormons?

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  ANewLeif

  Whether or not there are nominally Christian religions that don't take up military service, it is tough to get around Acts 10, where Cornelius is pictured as a Roman army officer of the Italian Band and he gets baptized by spirit just before being baptized by water. There is no hint that he had to retire first from his military service as a condition of baptism.

  ANL
• 
  45

  Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

  by FireNBandits in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you a pharisee?

  have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

  (for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ANewLeif

  Narkissos,

  Islam teaches that Jesus was a great prophet, but just a man. It teaches that he was not the son of God; that he was not the Messiah. That is dogma and it directly contradicts the foundational dogma of Christianity.

  I don't know how a religion that surfaced almost 200 years after the Nicene Creed could be weighed against any other version of Christianity, but I am willing to learn.

  ANL
• 
  45

  Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

  by FireNBandits in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you a pharisee?

  have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

  (for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ANewLeif

  Himself, d dog. Nobody writes that much about a subject they know so little of unless they love to read what they just wrote. He wants the freedom to judgmentally determine who can be judgmental and who cannot. He apparently has himself squarely in the "Can Be Judgmental" column.

  ANL
• 
  61

  Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

  by ANewLeif in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

  (acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

  christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

  1. 
  2. 
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  ANewLeif

  Martin,

  One doesn't need to be a Christian to recognize when someone else's religion cannot accurately describe itself as Christian. One only needs to know the dogma of the religion professing Christianity and the supposed source for the dogma.

  Pr**k.

  ANL
• 
  61

  Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

  by ANewLeif in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

  (acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

  christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  ANewLeif

  Martin,

  Try to follow me carefully on this one. I will type slowly and use simple structures to build up to more complex ideas, out of kind regard for your candid admission on another thread that you are sometimes as thick as a brick.

  1 - Jehovah's Witnesses is not your mother, your brother, your aunt, or your uncle. These are examples of individual adherents and not at all the subject I am discussing.

  2 - Jehovah's Witnesses is a worldwide religion that makes certain claims about itself. Many of these claims can be proven untrue by the very source the religion looks to for support of its claims.

  3 - Jehovah's Witnesses either do or do not regard the Bible as the basis of all their doctrine. The Reasoning book says they do. In fact, that publication goes so far as to state that the fact that they do is, in part, what proves that they are the sole organization God is using today.

  4 - Jehovah's Witnesses (the religion) claim to be not only Christian, but they claim to be the only Christians on the face of the earth. Apparently religions cannot even be held accountable to their own published standards and found dogmatically wanting without some pissant crusader verbally castigating the one who discovers and publishes the lack.

  5 - Jesus trashed the Pharisees (as published in Matthew 23) even though every individual adherent did not merit the comments he made. The religion was flawed and destructive. You even referenced his comments in your post when you asked how many I would shut up the heavens to. He was referring to the religious dogma serving the purpose of shutting up the heavens, he wasn't saying that individual Pharisees had the ability to keep someone else from heaven.

  6 - Challenging the claims of religions and/or religionists is not Pharisaical. Jesus did it, frequently. The apostles did it. You do it, too. Snidely and sarcastically, but you do it.

  7 - Arrogantly presuming the state of mind or intentions of someone else based on cursory information about them is prejudice. Prejudice is not necessarily Pharisaical, there are many horrible traits among humans which are not strictly Pharisaical, but you are prejudiced. Rankly and disgustingly, prejudiced.

  8 - Your response to my post proves that your self assessment of being as thick as a brick was most likely accurate.

  Did I write that comprehensively enough for you to apprehend it all, or would you like bits of it explained further?

  ANL