Posts by ANewLeif

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

ANewLeif

Thank you, Narkissos, for that clarification of your point.

I do not think the Nazarenes ever considered themselves Christians. They seem to have regarded themselves as Jews who believed that Jesus was the Messiah, not as Christians who believed they had to retain Jewish traditions and uphold the Law of Moses. At least, that seems to be a reasonable summation of the viewpoint of Epiphanius.

As I understand things, since there is no clearly identifiable creed for the Ebionites it is difficult to categorize the Ebionites as having any particular set of beliefs to which they all adhered. Not that I believe this would be necessary for Christians, in any case, but I think while discussing a religion that claims to be the one and only path to salvation and claims that the Authorized Version's canon is the source of their claim, it is odd to inject a group that did not hold that view as a counterpoint. In the case of Islam, they hold the The Noble Qur'an to be the central authoritative text and the same argument applies. Islamists teach that any who do not adopt Islam, as the path to salvation, are destined for destruction.

It seems that in the case of both the Ebionites and the Nazarenes there was more belief held in common with Pharisees than with Christ. Many "Christian" religions today have the same problem, including Jehovah's Witnesses. Christ did not start a religion. Christ started a spiritual movement from which religions sprang.

I tend to single out Jehovah's Witnesses on this forum because ... that is what I thought this forum is for.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Pubsinger,

Corporate salvation is impossible. I agree with you there. However, that isn't what JWs teach. They teach that the organization (Corporation) is the modern day ark that corresponds to Noah's.

When examining something outside myself and my own viewpoints I find it helpful to try and see things from the perspective of the thing I am examining. Looking from inside the JW mindset, outward--adopting the world view that the religion tries to get the unsuspecting to adopt (often successfully)--is the only way I know to find out how to help them break free from the mental bonds that hold them tied to a religion as opposed to a relationship.

Jesus advocated a relationship, not a religion. He advocated spirituality, not a religion. But it is impossible to get a JW to that point without first bringing them 'round to question what they know to be true.

I understood that this forum was to discuss Jehovah's Witnesses, but it seems I am redirected to discussing other religions and religious belief systems at every turn. I don't mind doing that, I find it invigorating. But I don't want anyone to lose sight of what my primary intent is on this forum.

I am primarily here to dicuss Jehovah's Witnesses, that is the stated purpose of the forum and I refuse to be bullied into silence simply because I think their religion is a load of horsesh** and that their adherents make horsesh** peddlers of themselves by strewing the manure around neighborhoods. Of course the price they ask is reasonable; for the low, low price of the rest of your life you can have an empty promise!

ANL

20

Are there other religions that don't go to millitary service?

by GBSJG in

the argument that jws are the only religion that doesn't go in military service is one i hear frequently.

but is this really so does anyone know any other religion that doesn't go to war?

perhaps the mormons?

ANewLeif

Whether or not there are nominally Christian religions that don't take up military service, it is tough to get around Acts 10, where Cornelius is pictured as a Roman army officer of the Italian Band and he gets baptized by spirit just before being baptized by water. There is no hint that he had to retire first from his military service as a condition of baptism.

ANL

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

ANewLeif

Narkissos,

Islam teaches that Jesus was a great prophet, but just a man. It teaches that he was not the son of God; that he was not the Messiah. That is dogma and it directly contradicts the foundational dogma of Christianity.

I don't know how a religion that surfaced almost 200 years after the Nicene Creed could be weighed against any other version of Christianity, but I am willing to learn.

ANL

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

ANewLeif

Himself, d dog. Nobody writes that much about a subject they know so little of unless they love to read what they just wrote. He wants the freedom to judgmentally determine who can be judgmental and who cannot. He apparently has himself squarely in the "Can Be Judgmental" column.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Martin,

One doesn't need to be a Christian to recognize when someone else's religion cannot accurately describe itself as Christian. One only needs to know the dogma of the religion professing Christianity and the supposed source for the dogma.

Pr**k.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Martin,

Try to follow me carefully on this one. I will type slowly and use simple structures to build up to more complex ideas, out of kind regard for your candid admission on another thread that you are sometimes as thick as a brick.

1 - Jehovah's Witnesses is not your mother, your brother, your aunt, or your uncle. These are examples of individual adherents and not at all the subject I am discussing.

2 - Jehovah's Witnesses is a worldwide religion that makes certain claims about itself. Many of these claims can be proven untrue by the very source the religion looks to for support of its claims.

3 - Jehovah's Witnesses either do or do not regard the Bible as the basis of all their doctrine. The Reasoning book says they do. In fact, that publication goes so far as to state that the fact that they do is, in part, what proves that they are the sole organization God is using today.

4 - Jehovah's Witnesses (the religion) claim to be not only Christian, but they claim to be the only Christians on the face of the earth. Apparently religions cannot even be held accountable to their own published standards and found dogmatically wanting without some pissant crusader verbally castigating the one who discovers and publishes the lack.

5 - Jesus trashed the Pharisees (as published in Matthew 23) even though every individual adherent did not merit the comments he made. The religion was flawed and destructive. You even referenced his comments in your post when you asked how many I would shut up the heavens to. He was referring to the religious dogma serving the purpose of shutting up the heavens, he wasn't saying that individual Pharisees had the ability to keep someone else from heaven.

6 - Challenging the claims of religions and/or religionists is not Pharisaical. Jesus did it, frequently. The apostles did it. You do it, too. Snidely and sarcastically, but you do it.

7 - Arrogantly presuming the state of mind or intentions of someone else based on cursory information about them is prejudice. Prejudice is not necessarily Pharisaical, there are many horrible traits among humans which are not strictly Pharisaical, but you are prejudiced. Rankly and disgustingly, prejudiced.

8 - Your response to my post proves that your self assessment of being as thick as a brick was most likely accurate.

Did I write that comprehensively enough for you to apprehend it all, or would you like bits of it explained further?

ANL

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

ANewLeif

However, it is not Pharisaical to state whether a religion's dogma is Christian dogma. For instance, while a Zen Buddhist might also be a Christian, Zen Buddhist philosophy is not Christian. On the other hand, a good Muslim is not a Christian, the dogma precludes it.

In another thread Martin wrote, "AnEwLeif! Wow! I'm impressed! A brand new Pharisee has blossomed! I think if you try even harder you can find even more ways to shut the door to the Kingdom on many more people! What's your secret? Do you have Jesus in your hip pocket? Are you Omniscient? You must be. I think that's great. When I get my Pharisee Badge from Battle Creek Michigan I hope I can be even HALF as righteous and holy as you are. Judge Rutherford would be proud of you. Hell, I'M proud of you and I'm just an advanced piece of software being tested by the DOD."

I think Pharisee hunters like our friend Martin, here, often assume that every person who says someone is not a Christian also attaches a doctrine that non-Christians are destined for destruction and cannot have God's favor or any number of other dismal outcomes for the non-Christian. Such an assumption about the beliefs of others may not be Pharisaical, but it is certainly prejudiced. Hats off to you, Martin! You have proven that one need not be a Pharisee to be a judgemental pr**k.

ANL

64

Why do dubs act as if 1975 wasn't failed prophesy or misleading?

by NotaNess in

from the evidence i have found, it was all but etched in stone.

so why try and defend the wts by saying "they never stated armageddon would be in 1975", as one witness tried to throw back at me.. seems that you could show them all the evidence in the world of this false organization, and it will repel right off them.

is there some sort of "force field" kool-aid they're serving at the halls?.

ANewLeif

Mad,

You wrote, "Now there are probably others giving excuses- but it was simply the imagination of one of our writers!"

When an organization promotes itself as God's sole channel of communication and promotes its magazines as the primary vehicle for distributing communication through that channel, that organization had better fully accept the weighty responsibility it takes on itself. I can quote you dozens of articles that say that all Jehovah's Witnesses should eagerly heed the leadings of God through His organization. In other words, they put faith in the imagination of one of the writers because they were told to do so.

You cannot excuse the organization on the basis you are using without calling sharply into question if it is God's channel of communication. If it is, then God is apparently incapable of making or unwilling to make sure the message is conveyed properly. If it isn't, as I suspect, then those charlatans have much to answer for.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I thought JWs hold there doctrine up to a higher standard of Scriptural integrity than other religions. The responses I am getting seem to indicte that they do not. Many seem willing to forgive doctrinal error among JW doctrine on the basis of doctrinal error in other religions. If that is the case, why is it any better to be a JW than any other religion?

ANL