Posts by ANewLeif

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I am using the reference point chosen by JWs. I didn't choose it, they did. This forum is to discuss Jehovah's Witnesses. This thread is certainly for that purpose. Within that narrow context (defined by the thread and the forum) I use their narrow reference point.

How else would someone hope to counter their intellectual abuses? Do you think any ardent JW would agree with the argument in your posts?

You show your hubris by making a request and then assuming permission. You do not have permission to expand the discussion scope, if you please.

ANL

20

IYO, what r the most problematic scripture(s) for dubs?...or lack there of

by *jeremiah* in

hey everyone,...in your opinion, (1) what scripture or passages in the bible completely go against jdub doctrine?

scriptures that the dubs really can't answer or really can't fit into their equation,...thus, they go unnoticed or avoided.

(2) or,...what scriptural proof should be in the bible to back their doctrinal claims.

ANewLeif

Marcel,

If you asked a JW what would happen to them if the did go to a Jewish synagogue for Sabbath services and then showed them where the Apostle Paul did that as his custom, what reasoning line could they use to justify the discipline their religion metes out?

I don't understand how your response about reaching people even addressed the issue. The issue is that the First Century Christians could attend services of other religions and JWs cannot.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Terry,

You asked, "I wonder if we might broaden the discussion a bit?"

No. But you don't seem to care.

The topic, "Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?"

Your interpretation of "a bit" is quite a lot beyond mine. Please demonstrate how your post relates to the topic or remove the parts that do not (in my opinion that would be everything but the question you asked at the beginning).

ANL

20

IYO, what r the most problematic scripture(s) for dubs?...or lack there of

by *jeremiah* in

hey everyone,...in your opinion, (1) what scripture or passages in the bible completely go against jdub doctrine?

scriptures that the dubs really can't answer or really can't fit into their equation,...thus, they go unnoticed or avoided.

(2) or,...what scriptural proof should be in the bible to back their doctrinal claims.

ANewLeif

Marcel,

I agree that the understanding they apply to Matthew 28:19, 20 is impractical. I was simply stating that since it doesn't make sense to understand that every Christian must baptize others it also doesn't make sense to understand that every Christian must preach to others.

Contextually, the two actions are equivalent in imperative sense. Whoever the responsiblity was placed on became responsible for both actions to an equal degree.

JWs try to separate the two actions, making everyone responsible for part of it and severely restricting who they allow to be responsible for the other part. That is an impossible way to understand the instruction.

A JW is forbidden from sharing in the religious activities of any other faith. The First Century Christians frequently did what JWs are disallowed from doing. Even in reaching unbelievers they are forbidden from sharing any religious observances with them. If a JW today decided to go to a Jewish synagogue for Sabbath services like the apostles did, such a JW would be subjected to a Judicial Committee if their attendance at a false religious service became known.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I am non-denominational, Pubsinger.

But the lack of denominational distinction among "Christian" churches is not evident among JWs, at all. For them to attend any other religion's services is considered an act of apostasy. If the offender is unrepentant they can be severely shunned for it.

You wrote, "Secretly nobody believed that the 7 trumpet blasts ... Secretly they believe that [Jesus] is [their mediator]."

Can someone be a secret Christian, Pubsinger? How does that work, exactly? That is a new one for me. I never even considered the possibility that such a person could exist. Do these "secret" Christians teach other people that Jesus is not their mediator while believing that he is? I'm stymied how that could possibly result in honesty or integrity without exposing their secret beliefs and being punished.

ANL

57

Jesus never used the name Jehovah???

by Mrs Smith in

my hubby and i have been doing a lot of bible reading are we correct by saying that jesus never once used the name jehovah?

if the name is so important surely jesus would have used it?

the jw's say that jesus was the greatest teacher and that we should follow his example so why are they using a name that jesus did not once refer to.

ANewLeif

For instance, when Jesus taught his disciples how to pray it would have been a perfect opportunity to use the name, if his disciples were meant to do so. But he didn't. (Matthew 6:9) He used the substitute "Father" and then asked that the Father's name be sanctified. But he didn't use the name.

I think that is the best evidence on this subject I could ever ask for. He didn't even use the name when teaching them how to pray. But JWs will use the Anglican name "Jehovah" 40 times in a 2 minute prayer.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I submit for you consideration that you were not a JW. You were a Christian. When you discovered that, you left. Otherwise you would still be a JW.

I know lots of people who aren't JWs. They just don't know it. When they find out they are not JWs they will leave.

ANL

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

ANewLeif

I agree, Narkissos. Judaizers won out. Which is why there is so much more in common with Judaism in most "Christian" religions (which I believe to be an oxymoronic expression) than there is in common with the actual philosophy of Jesus as related in the gospels.

You wrote, "If this is the case, his relationship to 'Christianity' is just as open a question as his relationship to 'Judaism' or 'Islam'."

In terms of religions, yes. In terms of philosophy any individual can nominally be any religion and still be a Christian. But that does not grant Christianity to the religion. If the religion does not match the philosophy it isn't a Christian religion. In my opinion, no religion matches the philosophy; the fact of creeds and dogma prevent the grace of God from having room to operate. Religion creates a new "mountain" where people are encouraged to worship. (John 4) It gets in the way of what Jesus taught.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

There seems to be some confusion as to exactly who is being discussed. The religion has intentionally tried to blur the line between individual "pew sitters" and the organization behind the name.

Pubsinger,

A professed Baptist who doesn't believe the Baptist creed isn't a Baptist. A JW who doesn't believe JW dogma isn't a JW. Even the JW dogma states that as a truth. Any individual in any church who doesn't subscribe to the basic tenets of the church may in fact be a Christian but, if so, they are not the denomination they pretend to be.

In other words, anyone who is actually a JW is definitely not a Christian. There may be many who go to JW meetings and appear to be dutiful JWs who are in fact Christians. Such people aren't reallyJWs. If someone adheres to doctrine that prevents them from being Christian they are not Christian.

If someone is a JW (not just professed), they are not a Christian. And vice-versa.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

"Well" said, zack. John 4 contains what I believe to be clinching proof that Jesus was not preaching a religion, but was preaching a relationship and a philosophy.

ANL