chrisjoel

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Posts by chrisjoel

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  2

  Marcus Brigstocke rants about religion...funny stuff

  by chrisjoel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy-zrwfwlqg.

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  chrisjoel

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY-ZrwFwLQg
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  Padre Pio's body exhumed after 40 years!

  by chrisjoel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/face-to-face--with-the--mystic-monk-1359824.html.

  growing up in italian circles i often heard of padre pio's amazing life as if he was actually performing miracles ...i had heard he had the stigmata, and was privy to visions..but anyways its pretty amazing that the ppl want to see him so bad , .

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  chrisjoel

  his face was covered with a life-like silicone mask...yikes!
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  5

  Padre Pio's body exhumed after 40 years!

  by chrisjoel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/face-to-face--with-the--mystic-monk-1359824.html.

  growing up in italian circles i often heard of padre pio's amazing life as if he was actually performing miracles ...i had heard he had the stigmata, and was privy to visions..but anyways its pretty amazing that the ppl want to see him so bad , .

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  chrisjoel

  http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/face-to-face--with-the--mystic-monk-1359824.html

  Growing up in Italian circles i often heard of Padre Pio's amazing life as if he was actually performing miracles ...i had heard he had the stigmata, and was privy to visions..but anyways Its pretty amazing that the ppl want to see him so bad ,
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  365

  Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

  in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

  (intellignet design).

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  chrisjoel

  I would like to ask a question, in all sincerity, i do not have the answer to. .....

  The universe has gravity laws, motion and thermodynamics laws, and many other "laws" which if not present, the universe wouldnt function properly. So where did these laws come from? If not placed there by a "designer" then what happened so that these functions of our universe work properly? Although as concerns the Bible Im certain it is mythical, the same, however, I cannot say with regards to a Designer. I cannot say emphatically that there was NO intelligent design involved in our universe. To say that would be wrong at this point.
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  259

  What will you do when the Great Tribulation Begins?

  by Malkiel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i've always wanted to ask this question to those that have decided to leave the organization.. what will you do when the great tribulation begins?.

  right now folks, a lot is happening in the political world.. gordon brown (prime miniter of england) last week gave a speech to the un stating that it is time for the un to step in and solve the world's problems, (specifically mentioning the economy and hunger crisis worldwide.).

  barrack obama is shaping up to be the next president, a fellow who sure knows how to persuade and lead great crowds.

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  chrisjoel

  Hi M

  Fact: 1914 is 100% wrong period. Do some research on this privately and you will see beyond a doubt that is the case.

  Fact: JWs interpretation of Mathew 24 is beyond repair. Do some research on this board or privately and you will see this to be the case.

  I dont need to say anything more you need to do the research yourself. Thanks.
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  108

  Athiest what do you believe?

  by real one in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  im just wondering because it seems like you have no hope.

  please set me straight.

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  chrisjoel

  I believe in LIFE. It seems reasonable to believe that LIFE happened in our galaxy just as it could happen on another planet in another galaxy unknown to us. LIFE happened on our planet and thats all we have. If this LIFE we have has a source then it has made itself scarce.

  (Until someone shows me it is reasonable to believe the gross insanity of the Bible, such as YHWH bringing animals to Adam for him to choose a wife .or....YHWH sending a bear to kill children for calling HIS prophet "baldy"...ect, ect,...then I have no other alternative but to put myself in the agnostic category.)
• 
  365

  Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

  by Perry in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i just got back from seeing the new movie release "expelled" which is a documentary exposing the militant culture of supression regarding intelligent design in the scientific community.

  in a "million years", i never would have imagined that ben stein could get the author of "the god delusion", richard dawkins to speak favorably about i.d.

  (intellignet design).

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  chrisjoel

  Prove that it isnt the ALIENS behind any of our theories....to me that makes more sense than belief in a specific GOD..because at least we see UFOs....(7-10 % of total sightings are unexplainable)
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  DJMerlin/The Human Spirit.w/ Tower OF Babel slide show...enjoy

  by chrisjoel in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzryci4rpxy

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  chrisjoel

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZRYCI4rpXY
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  Challenge to Christians to read this! What do you make of this?

  by chrisjoel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the gospel story, with its figure of jesus of nazareth, cannot be found before the gospels.

  in christian writings earlier than mark, including almost all of the new testament epistles, as well as in many writings from the second century, the object of christian faith is never spoken of as a human man who had recently lived, taught, performed miracles, suffered and died at the hands of human authorities, or rose from a tomb outside jerusalem.

  there is no sign in the epistles of mary or joseph, judas or john the baptist, no birth story, teaching or appointment of apostles by jesus, no mention of holy places or sites of jesus career, not even the hill of calvary or the empty tomb.

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  chrisjoel

  http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/preamble.htm

  http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/partone.htm

  http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/parttwo.htm

  http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/partthre.htm

  http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/postscpt.htm

  http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/century2.htm
  
  The Gospel story, with its figure of Jesus of Nazareth, cannot be found before the Gospels. In Christian writings earlier than Mark, including almost all of the New Testament epistles, as well as in many writings from the second century, the object of Christian faith is never spoken of as a human man who had recently lived, taught, performed miracles, suffered and died at the hands of human authorities, or rose from a tomb outside Jerusalem. There is no sign in the epistles of Mary or Joseph, Judas or John the Baptist, no birth story, teaching or appointment of apostles by Jesus, no mention of holy places or sites of Jesus’ career, not even the hill of Calvary or the empty tomb. This silence is so pervasive and so perplexing that attempted explanations for it have proven inadequate
  
  The first clear non-Christian reference to Jesus as a human man in recent history is made by the Roman historian Tacitus around 115 CE, but he may simply be repeating newly-developed Christian belief in an historical Jesus in the Rome of his day. Several earlier Jewish and pagan writers are notably silent. The Antiquities of the Jews by the Jewish historian Josephus, published in the 90s, contains two famous references to Jesus, but these are inconclusive. The first passage, as it stands, is universally acknowledged to be a later Christian insertion, and attempts have failed to prove some form of authentic original; the second also shows signs of later Christian tampering. References to Jesus in the Jewish Talmud are garbled and come from traditions which were only recorded in the third century and later. [See "Postscript" in the Main Articles and Reader Feedback responses to Sean and Steven
  
  Paul and other early writers speak of the divine Son of their faith entirely in terms of a spiritual, heavenly figure; they never identify this entity called "Christ Jesus" (literally, "Anointed Savior" or "Savior Messiah") as a man who had lived and died in recent history. Instead, through the agency of the Holy Spirit, God has revealed the existence of his Son and the role he has played in the divine plan for salvation. These early writers talk of long-hidden secrets being disclosed for the first time to apostles like Paul, with no mention of an historical Jesus who played any part in revealing himself, thus leaving no room for a human man at the beginning of the Christian movement. Paul makes it clear that his knowledge and message about the Christ is derived from scripture under God’s inspiration.
  
  Paul does not locate the death and resurrection of Christ on earth or in history. According to him, the crucifixion took place in the spiritual world, in a supernatural dimension above the earth, at the hands of the demon spirits (which many scholars agree is the meaning of "rulers of this age" in 1 Corinthians 2:8). The Epistle to the Hebrews locates Christ’s sacrifice in a heavenly sanctuary (ch. 8, 9). The Ascension of Isaiah, a composite Jewish-Christian work of the late first century, describes (9:13-15) Christ’s crucifixion by Satan and his demons in the firmament (the heavenly sphere between earth and moon). Knowledge of these events was derived from visionary experiences and from scripture, which was seen as a ‘window’ onto the higher spiritual world of God and his workings.
  The activities of gods in the spiritual realm were part of ancient views (Greek and Jewish) of a multi-layered universe, which extended from the base world of matter where humans lived, through several spheres of heaven populated by various divine beings, angels and demons, to the highest level of pure spirit where the ultimate God dwelled. In Platonic philosophy (which influenced Jewish thought), the upper spiritual world was timeless and perfect, serving as a model for the imperfect and transient material world below; the former was the "genuine" reality, accessible to the intellect. Spiritual processes took place there, with their effects, including salvation, on humanity below. Certain "human characteristics" given to Christ (e.g., Romans 1:3) were aspects of his spirit world nature, higher counterparts to material world equivalents, and were often dependent on readings of scripture
  
  Christ’s features and myths are in many ways similar to those of the Greco-Roman salvation cults of the time known as "mystery religions", each having its own savior god or goddess. Most of these (e.g., Dionysos, Mithras, Attis, Isis, Osiris) were part of myths in which the deity had overcome death in some way, or performed some act which conferred benefits and salvation on their devotees. Such activities were viewed as taking place in the upper spirit realm, not on earth or in history. Most of these cults had sacred meals (like Paul’s Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11:23f) and envisioned mystical relationships between the believer and the god similar to what Paul speaks of with Christ. Early Christianity was a Jewish sectarian version of this widespread type of belief system, though with its own strong Jewish features and background
  
  The Christian "Son" is also an expression of the overriding religious concept of the Hellenistic age, that the ultimate God is transcendent and can have no direct contact with the world of matter. He must reveal himself and deal with humanity through an intermediary force, such as the "Logos" of Platonic (Greek) philosophy or the figure of "personified Wisdom" of Jewish thinking; the latter is found in documents like Proverbs, Baruch and the Wisdom of Solomon. This force was viewed as an emanation of God, his outward image, an agency which had helped create and sustain the universe and now served as a channel of knowledge and communion between God and the world. All these features are part of the language used by early Christian writers about their spiritual "Christ Jesus", a heavenly
  figure who was a Jewish sectarian version of these prevailing myths and thought patterns
  
  Not only do the Gospels contain basic and irreconcilable differences in their accounts of Jesus, they have been put together according to a traditional Jewish practice known as "midrash", which involved reworking and enlarging on scripture. This could entail the retelling of older biblical stories in new settings. Thus, Mark’s Jesus of Nazareth was portrayed as a new Moses, with features that paralleled the stories of Moses. Many details were fashioned out of specific passages in scripture. The Passion story itself is a pastiche of verses from the Psalms, Isaiah and other prophets, and as a whole it retells a common tale found throughout ancient Jewish writings, that of the Suffering and Vindication of the Innocent Righteous One. It is quite possible that Mark, at least, did not intend his Gospel to represent an historical figure or historical events, and designed it to provide liturgical readings for Christian services on the Jewish model. Liberal scholars now
  In Galilean circles distinct from those of the evangelists (who were probably all located in Syria), a Jewish movement of the mid-first century preaching the coming of the Kingdom of God put together over time a collection of sayings, ethical and prophetic, now known as Q. The Q community eventually invented for itself a human founder figure who was regarded as the originator of the sayings. In ways not yet fully understood, this figure fed into the creation of the Gospel Jesus, and the sayings document was used by Matthew and Luke to flesh out their reworking of Mark’s Gospel. Some modern scholars believe they have located the "genuine" Jesus at the roots of Q, but Q’s details and pattern of evolution suggest that no Jesus was present in its earlier phases, and those roots point to a Greek style of teaching known as Cynicism, one unlikely to belong to any individual, let alone a Jewish preacher of the Kingdom
  The documentary record reveals an early Christian landscape dotted with a bewildering variety of communities and sects, rituals and beliefs about a Christ/Jesus entity, most of which show little common ground and no central authority. Also missing is any idea of apostolic tradition tracing back to a human man and his circle of disciples. Scholars like to style this situation as a multiplicity of different responses to the historical Jesus, but such a phenomenon is not only incredible, it is nowhere attested to in the evidence itself. Instead, all this diversity reflects independent expressions of the wider religious trends of the day, based on expectation of God’s Kingdom, and on belief in an intermediary divine force which provided knowledge of God and a path to salvation. Only with the Gospels, which began to appear probably toward the end of the first century, were many of these elements
  As the midrashic nature of the Gospels was lost sight of by later generations of gentile Christians, the second century saw the gradual adoption of the Gospel Jesus as an historical figure, motivated by political considerations in the struggle to establish orthodoxy and a central power amid the profusion of early Christian sects and beliefs. Only with Ignatius of Antioch, just after the start of the second century, do we see the first expression in Christian (non-Gospel) writings of a belief that Jesus had lived and died under Pilate, and only toward the middle of that century do we find any familiarity in the wider Christian world with written Gospels and their acceptance as historical accounts. Many Christian apologists, however, even in the latter part of the century, ignore the existence of a human founder in their picture and defense of the faith. By the year 200, a canon of authoritative documents had been formed, reinterpreted to apply to the Jesus of the Gospels, now regarded as a real historical man. Christianity entered a new future founded on a monumental misunderstanding of its own past
  Modern critical scholars have been dismantling the story of Jesus, attempting to salvage from it an inspiring sage for a more rational, enlightened future, and letting go the sacrificial divine Savior of an archaic past. Some of them are edging toward the admission that Paul's Christ had nothing to do with an historical man, while positioning their new teaching Jesus as only one element in the Jewish-Hellenistic synthesis which led to Christianity. The sage, however, is an artificial construct, a misreading (then and now) of the broader sectarian expressions of the day. And the links and lines of development between the various strands which scholars have created to make their scenarios hang together are largely unsupported by the evidence. The pieces of the Jesus Puzzle will not fit together except by abandoning any expectation of encountering an historical, human face
  
  All the Gospels derive their basic story of Jesus of Nazareth from a single source: whoever produced the first version of Mark. That Matthew and Luke are reworkings of Mark with extra, mostly teaching, material added is now an almost universal scholarly conclusion, while many also consider that John has drawn his framework for Jesus’ ministry and death from a Synoptic source as well. We thus have a Christian movement spanning half the empire and a full century which nevertheless has managed to produce only one version of the events that are supposed to lie at its inception. Acts, as an historical witness to Jesus and the beginnings of the Christian movement, cannot be relied upon, since it is a tendentious creation of the second century, dependent on the Gospels and designed to create a picture of Christian origins traceable to a unified body of apostles in Jerusalem who were followers of an historical Jesus. Many scholars now admit that much of Acts is sheer fabrication
  Not only do the Gospels contain basic and irreconcilable differences in their accounts of Jesus, they have been put together according to a traditional Jewish practice known as "midrash", which involved reworking and enlarging on scripture. This could entail the retelling of older biblical stories in new settings. Thus, Mark’s Jesus of Nazareth was portrayed as a new Moses, with features that paralleled the stories of Moses. Many details were fashioned out of specific passages in scripture. The Passion story itself is a pastiche of verses from the Psalms, Isaiah and other prophets, and as a whole it retells a common tale found throughout ancient Jewish writings, that of the Suffering and Vindication of the Innocent Righteous One. It is quite possible that Mark, at least, did not intend his Gospel to represent an historical figure or historical events, and designed it to provide liturgical readings for Christian services on the Jewish model. Liberal scholars now regard the Gospels as "faith documents" and not accurate historical accounts
  Galilean circles distinct from those of the evangelists (who were probably all located in Syria), a Jewish movement of the mid-first century preaching the coming of the Kingdom of God put together over time a collection of sayings, ethical and prophetic, now known as Q. The Q community eventually invented for itself a human founder figure who was regarded as the originator of the sayings. In ways not yet fully understood, this figure fed into the creation of the Gospel Jesus, and the sayings document was used by Matthew and Luke to flesh out their reworking of Mark’s Gospel. Some modern scholars believe they have located the "genuine" Jesus at the roots of Q, but Q’s details and pattern of evolution suggest that no Jesus was present in its earlier phases, and those roots point to a Greek style of teaching known as Cynicism, one unlikely to belong to any individual, let alone a Jewish preacher of the Kingdom

  The documentary record reveals an early Christian landscape dotted with a bewildering variety of communities and sects, rituals and beliefs about a Christ/Jesus entity, most of which show little common ground and no central authority. Also missing is any idea of apostolic tradition tracing back to a human man and his circle of disciples. Scholars like to style this situation as a multiplicity of different responses to the historical Jesus, but such a phenomenon is not only incredible, it is nowhere attested to in the evidence itself. Instead, all this diversity reflects independent expressions of the wider religious trends of the day, based on expectation of God’s Kingdom, and on belief in an intermediary divine force which provided knowledge of God and a path to salvation. Only with the Gospels, which began to appear probably toward the end of the first century, were many of these elements brought together to produce the composite figure of Jesus of Nazareth, set in a midrashic story about a life, ministry and death located in the time of Herod and Pontius Pilate

  As the midrashic nature of the Gospels was lost sight of by later generations of gentile Christians, the second century saw the gradual adoption of the Gospel Jesus as an historical figure, motivated by political considerations in the struggle to establish orthodoxy and a central power amid the profusion of early Christian sects and beliefs. Only with Ignatius of Antioch, just after the start of the second century, do we see the first expression in Christian (non-Gospel) writings of a belief that Jesus had lived and died under Pilate, and only toward the middle of that century do we find any familiarity in the wider Christian world with written Gospels and their acceptance as historical accounts. Many Christian apologists, however, even in the latter part of the century, ignore the existence of a human founder in their picture and defense of the faith. By the year 200, a canon of authoritative documents had been formed, reinterpreted to apply to the Jesus of the Gospels, now regarded as a real historical man. Christianity entered a new future founded on a monumental misunderstanding of its own past
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  384

  A STUNNINGLY simple question about JOHN 3:16 "For God so Loved the world."

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on what basis did god so love the world?.

  the world of mankind had been condemned to death by god's curse in eden!.

  god viewed mankind as "dust on the scales".

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  chrisjoel

  I cant believe the Dishonesty on the part of some "christians"...(.Perry..ahem ahem....)...Your reluctance for an unbiased response to such a simple question shows the degree to which you will go, to hold on to whatever grip this particular holy book has on you. I assure you Perry I understand your view...let me sum it up : God owns us, and has a perfect moral standard(?) and when Adam rebelled we are now accountable to HIM.(Hebrew 9:27)...WE deserve Gods JUdgment for our sin....meaning we endorse adams sin!..(GOT IT RIGHT EH!)...We cant earn his forgiveness we get it as a Gift..The substitute "Jesus" God gave so we can have an escape plan..SO this life was a satisfactory value offering for the rest of us.If we dont accept this we go to hell.....Since you wont answer it Perry..I ll. answer to the question its simple Perry. JOHN 3 16 "For God so loved the world that He gave his own begotten son....." on what basis could God offer his Son if the Ademic prospective world of mankind had entered the "sin state"....On the basis that if he didnt it would have marked a MISTAKE in the text.....the story requires a sacrifice. IT IS MYTH....The same God who brought animals to Adam for him to choose a wife from. If Adam had FOUND a suitable mate from among the animals this never would have happened. No requirement for sacrifice. The ridiculous nature of the Genesis account supplies us with the answer that John 3 16 just like many other texts .. is an attempt by the author to supply a development of a much more ancient mythic characters ....You have a disatrous misunderstanding of the Bible and its origins. The bible shows connections with foreign dying and rising myths.......enough said.