According to new understanding (July 15 2013), the Faithful and descreet slave has been so since 1919. Therefore, the first Apostles, the faithfull witnesses throughout history right up to Charles Russel were not part of the F&D Slave. Since Charles Russel wasn't an Apostle either, then, he was "demoted" to being a simple anointed brother who seeked the truth.
StephaneLaliberte
JoinedPosts by StephaneLaliberte
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"C.T. Russell was recently demoted to nothing more than a seeker of truth"
by thedepressedsoul ini saw this in one of the posts from a member.. .
has something changed?
not sure i remeber hearing that c.t.
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The Ray Franz Movie
by RayPublisher inbeen wanting to talk about this for a while... three years ago on this forum my friend cedars brought this up.
let's do it!.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sykaxxpyos.
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StephaneLaliberte
Ray Franz's story could be a full blown holywood movie if you ask me. Everything is there, Romance, Love, aint, treason, power, monney, travel, religion. With a great script, this could be awesome!
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Scriptural reason why only the anointed can partake?
by StephaneLaliberte inits weird, but im trying to find scriptures used by the wtbs to back the following assumption:.
*** w81 4/1 p. 12 celebrating the death of the greatest man ever on earth ***.
it is because the founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom.. .
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StephaneLaliberte
Blondie: Thanks for the quotes. I sincerely appreciate your time and effort. Still, I don’t see, even by JW theological standards, how the bible says that only anointed should partake.
*** it-1 p. 498 Congregation ***
Whereas the Law covenant mediated by Moses and under which the congregation of Israel was regulated was fulfilled by Christ and was taken out of the way by Jehovah God (Mt 5:17; 2Co 3:14; Col 2:13, 14), members of the Christian congregation of God partake of the benefits of the new covenant mediated by the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ. (Mt 26:28; Heb 12:22-24; Ac 3:19-23) Also, while the priests and kings of Israel were anointed with oil (Ex 30:22-30; 2Ki 9:6), those chosen by God to be members of the Christian congregation are anointed with holy spirit (2Co 1:21, 22; 1Jo 2:20) and are adopted by Jehovah God as his sons.—Eph 1:5.
Everyone (great crowd and the anointed) benefit from the new covenant.
(it-2 p. 270 Lord’s Evening Meal)
In thus partaking, these indicate that they are in the new covenant and are receiving the benefits of it, that is, God’s forgiveness of sins through Christ’s blood.
Was the memorial about the sacrificial death of Jesus or the new covenant? Jesus said: this represents my flesh and blood. He said: Keep doing this in remembrance of me. Not: Keep celebrating the new covenant.
They properly esteem the value of “the blood of the covenant” by which they are sanctified. (Heb 10:29)
The blood of Christ washes away the since of EVERYONE.
The Scriptures call them “ministers of a new covenant,” serving its ends. (2Co 3:5, 6)
Irrelevant: Scriptures says that of the anointed, not the partakers.
And they fittingly partake of the emblematic loaf because they can say: “By the said ‘will’ we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.” (Heb 10:10)
Everyone can say that: The great crowd washes their garments in the blood of Christ.
They share in Christ’s sufferings and in a death like his, a death of integrity.
Isn’t it basically the hope for Christians that dies faithfully?
They hope to share in “the likeness of his resurrection,” a resurrection to immortal life in a spiritual body.—Ro 6:3-5.
And how is this a requirement to partake?
*** w12 3/1 p. 17 How Should We Remember Jesus’ Death? ***
Through the new covenant, Jehovah makes blessings available to many by means of a few. Those in the covenant are few, a mere 144,000. Through them, millions from all nations will be blessed with everlasting life in an earthly paradise. Some who are in the new covenant serve Jehovah on earth today. They alone properly partake of the bread and the wine because the cup “means the new covenant.”—Read Luke 12:32; Revelation 14:1, 3.
Mathew and mark said: This means my “blood of the covenant” Wine is red like blood. Jesus also said: “Most truly I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.”. Safer route seems to suggest that you need to partake to demonstrate that you recognize that his sacrifice washes your sin.
*** w10 3/15 p. 27 One Flock, One Shepherd ***Who Should Partake?
15 Those in the new covenant “have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place.” (Read Hebrews 10:15-20.) These are the ones who are “to receive a kingdom that cannot be shaken.” (Heb. 12:28) So, then, only those who will be kings and priests in heaven with Jesus Christ should drink from the “cup” that represents the new covenant. These participants in the new covenant are the ones promised in marriage to the Lamb. (2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 21:2, 9) All others who attend the annual Memorial are respectful observers, who do not partake of the emblems.
Jesus didn’t say: By partaking, you demonstrate that you will be sitting to the right of me.
*** w09 1/15 p. 28 par. 15 Jehovah’s Servant—“Pierced for Our Transgression” ***
The things in the heavens” that are reconciled to Jehovah by means of Christ’s shed blood are the anointed Christians, called to reign with Christ in the heavens. Christians who are “partakers of the heavenly calling” are declared “righteous for life.” (Heb. 3:1; Rom. 5:1, 18) Jehovah then begets them as spiritual sons. The holy spirit bears witness to them that they are “joint heirs with Christ,” called to become kings and priests in his heavenly Kingdom. (Rom. 8:15-17; Rev. 5:9, 10) They become part of spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God,” and they are taken into the “new covenant.” (Jer. 31:31-34; Gal. 6:16) As members of the new covenant, they are entitled to partake of the Memorial emblems, including the cup of red wine, of which Jesus stated: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.”—Luke 22:20.
The blood was to be poured out in behalf of all who believed in him - not just the anointed. Matthew and Mark said: This means my “blood of the covenant”. Jesus’ Blood.
Also, did Jesus say: By drinking this cup, you demonstrate you are part of the new covenant? Take someone who believes to be saves (to an earthly paradise) through the new covenant. Why would he not the cup in appreciation for what the covenant brings? Either you go through the ceremony or you don't. There was no respectful christians observers in that room.
*** bh p. 207 par. 4 The Lord’s Evening Meal—An Observance That Honors God ***
Who should partake of these Memorial emblems? Logically, only those in the new covenant—that is, those who have the hope of going to heaven—should partake of the bread and the wine. God’s holy spirit convinces such ones that they have been selected to be heavenly kings. (Romans 8:16) They are also in the Kingdom covenant with Jesus.—Luke 22:29.
Logically?? How is saying “Logically” an explanation by itself?
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what is the best line to say to a JW handing you an invite to the memorial
by nonjwspouse ini have some ideas, but want more to choose from..
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StephaneLaliberte
I'm sorry, but I cannot possibly imagine myself rejecting Jesus' sacrifice by not partaking like you all do. The lord's meal is about Jesus' Sacrifice and by partaking, one expresses his gratitude for his sacrifice.
You, on the other hand, call it Memorial (a word not even found in the bible), and tell almost everyone that they can't take part of it as it is really about the new covenant of which they are not part of.
Can you imagine hosting a supper, telling most of your guests: You can watch me and my close friends eat while you stay there in silence. And don't you dare reaching over to eat anything!
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what is the best line to say to a JW handing you an invite to the memorial
by nonjwspouse ini have some ideas, but want more to choose from..
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StephaneLaliberte
I'm sorry, but I cannot possibly imagine myself rejecting Jesus' sacrifice by not partaking like you all do. The lord's meal is about Jesus' Sacrifice and by partaking, one expresses his gratitude for his sacrifice.
You, on the other hand, call it Memorial (a word not even found in the bible), and tell almost everyone that they can't take part of it as it is realy about the new covenant of which they are not part of.
Can you imagine hosting a supper, telling most of your guests: You can watch me and my close friends eat while you stay there in silence. And don't you dare reaching over to eat anything!
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FUNERAL OUTLINE
by freeatlast36 ini knew it.
march 28, 2014 at 9:57pm.
nobody seemed to notice that i wasn't sitting with my immediate family.
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StephaneLaliberte
It is worth mentioning that JW spend their entire life not celebrating their birth days so as not to bring undue attention to themselves. They have been reminded all their lives to be humble and not to bring attention to themselves but on the message. And when they die, they do exactly that again.
You are nothing. Even if God loved you soo much that he gave his son for you, You. Are. Nothing.
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Scriptural reason why only the anointed can partake?
by StephaneLaliberte inits weird, but im trying to find scriptures used by the wtbs to back the following assumption:.
*** w81 4/1 p. 12 celebrating the death of the greatest man ever on earth ***.
it is because the founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom.. .
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StephaneLaliberte
What stricks me here, is that there does not seem to be any attempt on the WT side to use, even twist a particular scripture to support the idea that partaking implies being part of the covenant.
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Scriptural reason why only the anointed can partake?
by StephaneLaliberte inits weird, but im trying to find scriptures used by the wtbs to back the following assumption:.
*** w81 4/1 p. 12 celebrating the death of the greatest man ever on earth ***.
it is because the founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom.. .
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StephaneLaliberte
It’s weird, but I’m trying to find scriptures used by the WTBS to back the following assumption:
*** w81 4/1 p. 12 Celebrating the Death of the Greatest Man Ever on Earth ***
It is because the Founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom.
The WT repeatedly says the comment above in various forms and then go on to show how the great crowd is not part of that covenant. Yet, they don't seem to use any scripture in supporting this inital claim; namely, that those observing the lord's meal demonstrate by doing so that they are part of the covenant.
Jesus plainly said: "Keep doing this in remembrance of me". The Apostle Paul also added "For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he comes."
I don't understand how they extrapolate theses statements to "doing so demonstrates that the observers are part of the new convenant".
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Circuit Overseer wakes up, packs his bags and leaves!
by Anony Mous ini just heard this about a co i knew back in the day before he was even a co. he must be in his mid-late 40's now, my mother told me the story as she knows the family very well (the entire family has gone 'apostate' including several elders, circuit overseers and missionaries - this was an "example" family, always on the stage etc).. he wasn't 'feeling well' so he took time off from his co duties.
that week he packed his suitcase, told his wife he can't do it anymore and he's leaving, leaves her the car and the house and went to live in a small apartment, bought a small car and a week later got a decent job.. this was very recent so not everybody within the org has heard yet what happened..
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StephaneLaliberte
Yeah, we need names and accurate locations to believe that one.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Suicide Memoriam
by Watchtower-Free injehovah's witnesses suicide memoriam.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1474402276106899/.
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StephaneLaliberte
This is a very good idea. I know of a pioneer, elder-wife, who killed herself. One of the saddest thing there is to hear really. It’s a shame I still stuck remaining anonymous.