Posts by StephaneLaliberte

24

What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

by StephaneLaliberte in

what is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

does any one has an actual number?

StephaneLaliberte

What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month? Does any one has an actual number?

18

2 John 10

by What Now? in

just looking for some rebuttals to 2 john 10, specifically when it comes to shunning family.

we essentially admitted to our families that we do not want to raise our kids as witnesses and do not believe what jehovah's witnesses teach.

predictably, they use 2 john 10 to justify shunning us, specifically the portion of the verse where it says "if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him".. since we are apostates (according to the jw definition), and no longer "bring this teaching", would our family be correct in interpreting this verse to mean that they should shun us?.

StephaneLaliberte

The letter was sent to a particular sister. Reading the first part of the letter, we can see that this Sister raised her kids in the truth and not all of them followed.

Logically speaking, in such a sentence, in that context, if the apostle John also meant her kids, he would have said: "Do not receive them, even your own kids".

Also, this was a letter sent to a woman by John in a specific set of circumstances. It was not addressed to a congregation and it was not sent in the name of the "Apostles". And it surely was not meant to be considered as source material to pass laws 2000 years later.

Of course, you can appreciate the meaning of this letter and even provide counsels using it. But to pass a law enforceable through shunning, presenting it as a direct message from God? Non-sense.

48

Your thoughts on Halloween , yes, no or maybe ?

by Finkelstein in

well its that time again when the ghouls come out to play.

i personally think halloween is a bit irresponsible and inappropriate from a sociological perspective.. there's something about the intent of frightening young impressionable children minds with frightening objests.

and feeding them candy which most likely cause tooth decay and stomachs is irresponsible activity conducted by adults.

StephaneLaliberte

Well, as an XJW, Halloween was truly the hardest to come around… until one of my friends told me: Put yourself in God’s shoes: Would you destroy kids and their parents because they celebrate it? Heck no. Why not? For the simple reason that we know that dressing like a witch on that day doesn’t mean you want to BE a witch and serve Satan.

This holiday is about facing our fears, not about promoting evil. Portraying evil things doesn’t mean you are in admiration of these, or that you worship them in anyway. What “actions” are done to promote bad things? Quite the contrary, while collecting candies, many kids collect funds for charities.

63

Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

by Crazyguy in

there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

StephaneLaliberte

First of all, since you are already out, contact the elders and tell them that they do not have the right to baptize your kids without your consent. Since they are clearly against you, in that context, it doesn't matter to add one more thing.

Second, get involved in a charity - food bank? And ask your son to join you. From what I can see at this point, you will win him only by example. So, get busy in charity and when he realizes that the JWs are all about words and very little actions, he will come around.

And be very good to your wife, make food, pick up after the house, tell her you love her. If on top of that, you get involved in charity... she'll have no options but to love you. If she doesn't ... its sad to say, but time for you to start a new life. Sure, easy to write.... hell of alot different to live it. So, what ever happens... my thoughts are sincerely with you!

63

Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

by Crazyguy in

there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

StephaneLaliberte

I remember very well how I felt when I was a kid and got baptized at 13: I had made up my mind, I had decided to serve Jehovah, and no one could stop me. Anyone who would get in my way would be swiftly dismissed in the same way Jesus dismissed Peter before going through his ultimate sacrifice.

My point is: If you say no, or even sound like you are discouraging your kid, he will hear nothing.

So, you will need to walk with him and steer his direction, not hit the brakes.

First, you need to command him on wanting to be baptized. The fact that he wants to be and do good in his life is truly commendable. For that fact alone, you can be proud of him.

However, you are concerned about his ability to make an informed decision. Ask him to read the second baptism question and ask him why it is needed? Wouldn’t it be implied of derived from the first question? What was the previous second question? Why did they change it? Have him reflect on these things himself. Tell him you don’t want to hear: I don’t know. He can make researches for school, he should be able to make such research for the most important thing in his life.

In the end, it will come down to “it’s a legal contract with the watchtower”.

Then, ask him to make a research on how to make a wise decision when buying a used car. When he comes back, he should normally have steps like:

Validate the reputation of the business

with current/previous customers
with the government
with the neighbors
with the competitors

Validate the quality of the car by

Getting a report on the car to know if it was in an accident before
Get information on its previous owner(s)
Scrutinize for defects yourself
Try to drive it to see if you like it

Then, tell him that he should ignore disgruntled customers as they all have bad motives. The government has no idea what he is talking about. The neighbors are jealous and the competitors are outright lying. The car was in an accident, but the report is probably falsified. The previous owners were jerks but they don’t own the car anymore, so that’s too far into the past and every dent and rust you see…well, you are not focusing on the right thing, the motor. And no matter how you feel when you drive this thing, I am telling you how you are feeling: You are in the best car in the world, you are happy. You don’t feel this way? That’s because you are negative. Look how happy I am in it.

Then tell your kid: Here is what I want you to do: Take some time, like a week, and list a few things you don’t like about the society, or that you simply don’t agree with. I’d like to hear what disturbs you the most, and some little things that are simply annoying to you. Then, come back and well talk about these.

When he comes back to talk about these things, ask him why they should simply be ignored. You may also help him understand how important these things truly are. After all, if they were not important, ask him to casually talk about these things at the next meeting(s) with at least three different elders and see how they react. If the elders use the “wait on Jehovah”, ask them if it would be alright to talk with other JW at various times to know what they thought about it. If these things are not important, why would it matter? Oh, they could create division? Well, there are many things that are left to the conscience, are you telling me that simply talking about these things and how we feel about these could create division and we should not express ourselves AT ALL on the matter?

Then tell him: This is not a hypothetical question. I want you to do it for real. How are you feeling now? A little afraid? Why would this feeling come up for insignificant matters in a religion that has more love to spare than anyone else on the planet?

If you have doubt about this, you can put a hold on getting baptized to a later time. After all, wasn’t Jesus 30? Can you show me one scripture where a kid was baptized?

If I can think of my 13 year old self, that would have turned me off right there.

26

Why doesn't God need a creator, while the Universe does?

by Bloody Hotdogs! in

i asked this question of a jw that called on me yesterday: "if the universe requires a creator, why doesn't god?

if the universe must have a beginning, why doesn't god?

he claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls.. i'm hoping you guys can give me a heads-up as to what he will say.

StephaneLaliberte

No one truly understand what was “before” time and what will be “after” time. Even the big bang doesn’t make sense: All energy was in a microscopic dot before exploding… so, where did that energy come from?

What about life itself, intelligence and self-awareness? I still find it implausible that these things would be the result of evolution. But then, what about God? How did he come to life, become intelligent and self-aware? The only possible answer would be that he lives in an alternate reality where the rules of our universe do not apply. In our universe, things have a beginning, and an end, weather in time or in space.

Hence, I find it reasonable for someone to stop thinking about what was before God. That being said, if there is indeed a God, I would believe that he used evolution as part of his creation process. However, the very acceptance of God as being a possibility does not imply accepting the bible or any religion. Heck, we could wonder if he created the universe and every planet out there. If he came out of the big bang. If there are in fact other God’s like him. Questions can go on and on from this point.

10

Can JW's vote on whether the UK should leave the EU?

by Splash in

jw's are not allowed to vote for political parties etc, but what about the vote, probably during 2016, to decide if the uk should leave the eu?.

the w99 11/1 qfr on voting saysthere are clear principles set out in the bible that enable servants of god to take a proper view of this matter.

however, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself...what, though, of voting in political elections?

StephaneLaliberte

I lived in Europe for a while and that is where I truly understood just how important voting is. Millions of people died to get to where we are, were, the people, have a say in how we are lead and by who. Sure, that voice is limited, but it is there and it has been acquired over much blood and lives. To than turn around and PREVENT people from voting on bogus religious grounds is truly shameful to me. It is a complete lack of respect for what has been done. It is like a brother being saved by a soldier, and then, on the following Sunday, gives a talk on just how bad soldiers are for participating in any wars at all.

10

Can JW's vote on whether the UK should leave the EU?

by Splash in

jw's are not allowed to vote for political parties etc, but what about the vote, probably during 2016, to decide if the uk should leave the eu?.

the w99 11/1 qfr on voting saysthere are clear principles set out in the bible that enable servants of god to take a proper view of this matter.

however, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself...what, though, of voting in political elections?

StephaneLaliberte

Also, an argument that was often provided to me was : Voting is putting your trust in the worlds government. Yes, governments can do some goods, but only Jehovah’s kingdom will bring lasting changes.

Yet that logic, transferred to the medical world shows just how stupid that is: Going to the doctor for treatment is putting your trust in man. Yes, doctors can do some good, but only Jehovah’s kingdom will bring lasting cures to everything, including death.

Who came up with the no voting rule? I mean, I understand that an active minister should not get involved in politics, but to the extent of not even voting?

10

Can JW's vote on whether the UK should leave the EU?

by Splash in

jw's are not allowed to vote for political parties etc, but what about the vote, probably during 2016, to decide if the uk should leave the eu?.

the w99 11/1 qfr on voting saysthere are clear principles set out in the bible that enable servants of god to take a proper view of this matter.

however, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself...what, though, of voting in political elections?

StephaneLaliberte

I voted for the first time of my life last Monday. To be honest, I never thought the reasons provided by the JW made much sense about not voting. However, I didn’t think it was worth making a fuss about it.

How would voting make you “part of the world” opposed to say, going to work everyday and paying your taxes?
How does voting would prevent you from representing Christ and his kingdom?
Those who elect a certain official share a responsibility? Anyone who pays taxes and makes no action against a bad official shares in the responsibility!
Israel’s desire for a human leader has nothing to do with Christians… Israel had its own government while Christians do not control any governments!
Since you do not have to say who you vote for, how would that impact your preaching work?

Arguments provided by the JW for not voting is BS.

26

How was it when you were a JW as a kid?

by nevaagain in

jw
friends

whats worse than being an adult jw?

when i was a kid i always had a bad concience all the time.

i believed i would not survive armageddon for the fact that i didn't like going to service and i didnt like going to the meetings.

StephaneLaliberte

When I look back on my childhood …

I lost contact with an ant and an uncle because they were disfellowshipped.
The contact I had with my non-jw family was insufficient.
I thought everyone, except JW, were either ignorant or too proud to accept the truth.
I was not involved in any after school activities
I could not be part of a baseball or basketball team
Vacation days often meant that I was going in service for the morning.
I was not celebrating any holidays

Now, the strange thing is that when I grew up, I felt very happy. I was a very happy kid. I had good friends, good parents, never lacked food or clothing, played a lot, and had a lot of fun… I sincerely had a great childhood. Since I knew nothing better, I saw what I had as the best that I could have. That’s also what I was being told every meetings (5 hours per week)!
So, looking back now, I don’t understand how I could be happy in all this, but this doesn’t change the fact that I was!
Weird.