Posts by StephaneLaliberte

37

Did I imagine a brief thaw in the Watchtower injunction against going to university?

by slimboyfat in

okay i was talking to an elder and he said me going to university was a bad idea and i should have listened to the society and not gone.

but i said that when i went to university the watchtower was saying it might not be a bad idea to go to, as long as you do it for the "right reasons", don't associate with worldly people, and keep clear of "damaging ideas".

but basically they said it was okay, in this "changing world" and job market to go to university.

StephaneLaliberte

You know, I feel exactly like you do.. I just lack the time to research further on the topic right now. Looking at a watchtower from 2013... Higher Education is evil! Yet, I went to university in 1998 and didn't feel so bad. Heck I was aux. pioneering at the same time!

47

Are we participants in this forum because of bouts of "loneliness"?

by Wonderment in

i wonder how many of us here hold on to this meeting place out of "loneliness.

could it be that we harbor feelings of "abandonment" and "loneliness" from being left cold and dry by the wt people and our families?

perhaps we do have a need to reach out to people with similar experiences.

StephaneLaliberte

I am a husband and a father of two, working 40 to 60 hours a week. I am very involved with my close and extended family: I’m very busy! Quite frankly, I often find myself on this forum rather than doing other chores; or taking longer breaks at work to finish a thought or a reading on this board. This is not because I’m lonely, it is because I am very passionate about the topics covered here.

For many of us, contribution on this forum is actually the most productive thing that we could ever do. We happen to be experts on a very select area. In addition, our expertise can bring direct help to a great number of people in need of it. Some people know the names of 300 birds, we know the names of the GB members…

For instance, had it not be for pro-active Apostates, absolutely no changes would have been done in how the JW handle pedophiles. Now, they had to deal with a Royal Commission in Australia and are starting to be questioned on their charitable status by other countries. These are great achievement that could not be achieved by people feeling lonely.

In addition, this discussion board is a library by itself. JWs use the Watchtower Library? I use this discussion board as a library! There is a tremendous amount of knowledge that has been shared on this site and to dismiss it away by calling it all a product of “loneliness” reveals a deep lack of respect for everyone on it.

24

What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

by StephaneLaliberte in

what is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

does any one has an actual number?

StephaneLaliberte

Fulano: Why the question Anyway?

It seems that since I have left the JWs two years ago, I keep hearing/learning about really bad things about them and it keeps surprising me. How could I have been so blind?

Recently, I was reading the Branch Organisation rule book which was leaked not too long ago… I than noticed that the working conditions in Bethel are far below standard if we compare them to what is set by law; the government of Quebec in Canada for instance. In Quebec, you have 9 public holidays + 12 vacation days by the end of the first year. That is a total of 21 days.

To reach the same number of vacation days, a bethelite needs to work 14 years! They work longer hours, they may get dismissed if they fall sick more than 10 days, they have no retirement plan, and… they don’t even get 200$ per month!

Call it dedication, I call it abuse. At conventions, they tell everyone that there is no better employer than Jehovah and yet, they don’t explain the working conditions until they are in. Many sign up, without questions, trusting that everything will be fine. Then, once they're in, they read these things and suddenly realize that they got themselves in a mess.

Yet, everyone at home is so proud and they gave their word that they’d be there for at least a year. So they stay. In the meantime, they get the message that if they leave bethel, well, it will be a failure, not “good enough” and blah blah blah. So they stay a few more years. All the while, any thought of self entitlement is crushed at every turn: They don’t matter, the group does. As the years pass, they lose their connections at home. People move, they get married, they die, and the world becomes a scarier place. Summers and winters still come and go, and they are unable to put a penny aside: it appears all the more impossible to make a new start somewhere else. Than, 36 years have passed and all that they have in return is 30 vacations days per year, the absolute maximum. So they get curious, they go online, and notice that most companies give that time away after only 5 to 7 years of service.

All the meanwhile, talks are given, telling people that the world is evil, loveless, while they treat their own with less privileges than the bare minimum provided by the laws of this system.

Even worst, recently, they're dismissing a good deal of these bethelites telling them to be pioneers out in the field. Its already bad enough that they are sending them out with nothing, they had to send them out with a guilt trip!

It really saddens me. As time passes, I realize that they are far worse than I thought; with things like these, I find them beyond redemption.

As Oubliette keeps posting at the end of his messages: It’s a cult.

15

Just read "Zealot - The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth"

by EdenOne in

so, keeping in mind that mrs. eden isn't so comfortable with english, i have been searching for books on the subject of the historical jesus and who wrote the bible, and i got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language.

most of what i read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame.

in any case, i managed to get two: bart ehrman's "misquoting jesus" and reza aslan's "zealot".

StephaneLaliberte

When I was in the JW, I thought that they had the ultimate knowledge of the environment in which Jesus must have dwelled. However, upon reading this book, I have noticed that there are significant details that are overlooked by the watchtower. Once you know these things, it becomes apparent that they are deliberately overlooking these things as they would go their way. It is far, very far from being objective.

For instance, the fact that Nazareth was very small and that Jesus likely had to work in a nearby city. How the high priest worked hand in hand with Pilate and that Pilate was not afraid of the Jews to such an extent that he stole money from the temple. Or the names of the various known messiahs in and about Jesus’s time. Why didn’t John stop his baptizing work to follow Jesus? That Jesus was likely killed due to throwing money changers out of the public area of the temple with his disciples. Have you ever seen a picture drawn in a watchtower where the disciples of Jesus were also throwing the money changers out? Anyways… This book opens up a whole different perspective of things that I had not envisioned before. I love it.

24

What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

by StephaneLaliberte in

what is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

does any one has an actual number?

StephaneLaliberte

Oh my, I heard an active Canadian bethelite tell me he was getting around 200 dollars a month, so maybe he was actually exaggerating a bit. Perhaps he actually received 160$ and he rounded it up to 200$. Dam. 100£ ... that's nothing.

24

What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

by StephaneLaliberte in

what is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?

does any one has an actual number?

StephaneLaliberte

What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month? Does any one has an actual number?

18

2 John 10

by What Now? in

just looking for some rebuttals to 2 john 10, specifically when it comes to shunning family.

we essentially admitted to our families that we do not want to raise our kids as witnesses and do not believe what jehovah's witnesses teach.

predictably, they use 2 john 10 to justify shunning us, specifically the portion of the verse where it says "if anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him".. since we are apostates (according to the jw definition), and no longer "bring this teaching", would our family be correct in interpreting this verse to mean that they should shun us?.

StephaneLaliberte

The letter was sent to a particular sister. Reading the first part of the letter, we can see that this Sister raised her kids in the truth and not all of them followed.

Logically speaking, in such a sentence, in that context, if the apostle John also meant her kids, he would have said: "Do not receive them, even your own kids".

Also, this was a letter sent to a woman by John in a specific set of circumstances. It was not addressed to a congregation and it was not sent in the name of the "Apostles". And it surely was not meant to be considered as source material to pass laws 2000 years later.

Of course, you can appreciate the meaning of this letter and even provide counsels using it. But to pass a law enforceable through shunning, presenting it as a direct message from God? Non-sense.

48

Your thoughts on Halloween , yes, no or maybe ?

by Finkelstein in

well its that time again when the ghouls come out to play.

i personally think halloween is a bit irresponsible and inappropriate from a sociological perspective.. there's something about the intent of frightening young impressionable children minds with frightening objests.

and feeding them candy which most likely cause tooth decay and stomachs is irresponsible activity conducted by adults.

StephaneLaliberte

Well, as an XJW, Halloween was truly the hardest to come around… until one of my friends told me: Put yourself in God’s shoes: Would you destroy kids and their parents because they celebrate it? Heck no. Why not? For the simple reason that we know that dressing like a witch on that day doesn’t mean you want to BE a witch and serve Satan.

This holiday is about facing our fears, not about promoting evil. Portraying evil things doesn’t mean you are in admiration of these, or that you worship them in anyway. What “actions” are done to promote bad things? Quite the contrary, while collecting candies, many kids collect funds for charities.

63

Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

by Crazyguy in

there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

StephaneLaliberte

First of all, since you are already out, contact the elders and tell them that they do not have the right to baptize your kids without your consent. Since they are clearly against you, in that context, it doesn't matter to add one more thing.

Second, get involved in a charity - food bank? And ask your son to join you. From what I can see at this point, you will win him only by example. So, get busy in charity and when he realizes that the JWs are all about words and very little actions, he will come around.

And be very good to your wife, make food, pick up after the house, tell her you love her. If on top of that, you get involved in charity... she'll have no options but to love you. If she doesn't ... its sad to say, but time for you to start a new life. Sure, easy to write.... hell of alot different to live it. So, what ever happens... my thoughts are sincerely with you!

63

Just found out their about to baptise my 14 year old boy.

by Crazyguy in

there doing this right under my nose but i just found out.

not sure what to do but would like your help on getting me wt information on my headship role and how they shouldn't be doing this with out my permission.

also would like some help on showing my son the ramifications on what happens to someone when they get baptized and how they'll expect him to treat me.

StephaneLaliberte

I remember very well how I felt when I was a kid and got baptized at 13: I had made up my mind, I had decided to serve Jehovah, and no one could stop me. Anyone who would get in my way would be swiftly dismissed in the same way Jesus dismissed Peter before going through his ultimate sacrifice.

My point is: If you say no, or even sound like you are discouraging your kid, he will hear nothing.

So, you will need to walk with him and steer his direction, not hit the brakes.

First, you need to command him on wanting to be baptized. The fact that he wants to be and do good in his life is truly commendable. For that fact alone, you can be proud of him.

However, you are concerned about his ability to make an informed decision. Ask him to read the second baptism question and ask him why it is needed? Wouldn’t it be implied of derived from the first question? What was the previous second question? Why did they change it? Have him reflect on these things himself. Tell him you don’t want to hear: I don’t know. He can make researches for school, he should be able to make such research for the most important thing in his life.

In the end, it will come down to “it’s a legal contract with the watchtower”.

Then, ask him to make a research on how to make a wise decision when buying a used car. When he comes back, he should normally have steps like:

Validate the reputation of the business

with current/previous customers
with the government
with the neighbors
with the competitors

Validate the quality of the car by

Getting a report on the car to know if it was in an accident before
Get information on its previous owner(s)
Scrutinize for defects yourself
Try to drive it to see if you like it

Then, tell him that he should ignore disgruntled customers as they all have bad motives. The government has no idea what he is talking about. The neighbors are jealous and the competitors are outright lying. The car was in an accident, but the report is probably falsified. The previous owners were jerks but they don’t own the car anymore, so that’s too far into the past and every dent and rust you see…well, you are not focusing on the right thing, the motor. And no matter how you feel when you drive this thing, I am telling you how you are feeling: You are in the best car in the world, you are happy. You don’t feel this way? That’s because you are negative. Look how happy I am in it.

Then tell your kid: Here is what I want you to do: Take some time, like a week, and list a few things you don’t like about the society, or that you simply don’t agree with. I’d like to hear what disturbs you the most, and some little things that are simply annoying to you. Then, come back and well talk about these.

When he comes back to talk about these things, ask him why they should simply be ignored. You may also help him understand how important these things truly are. After all, if they were not important, ask him to casually talk about these things at the next meeting(s) with at least three different elders and see how they react. If the elders use the “wait on Jehovah”, ask them if it would be alright to talk with other JW at various times to know what they thought about it. If these things are not important, why would it matter? Oh, they could create division? Well, there are many things that are left to the conscience, are you telling me that simply talking about these things and how we feel about these could create division and we should not express ourselves AT ALL on the matter?

Then tell him: This is not a hypothetical question. I want you to do it for real. How are you feeling now? A little afraid? Why would this feeling come up for insignificant matters in a religion that has more love to spare than anyone else on the planet?

If you have doubt about this, you can put a hold on getting baptized to a later time. After all, wasn’t Jesus 30? Can you show me one scripture where a kid was baptized?

If I can think of my 13 year old self, that would have turned me off right there.