Posts by StephaneLaliberte

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

StephaneLaliberte

I remember, back in the 90s, when I was a kid, I used to listen to rap. Than, in field service, an elder started lecturing me in the car about how bad of an influence these artists could have on me. Even if the lyrics had nothing wrong, their lifestyle was inexcusable and so on.

Than, about 5 minutes into that conversation, I noticed that he had a cassette of Elton John. So I stopped him and said:

"Wait a minute. Isn't Elton John a known homosexual? What about all that - buying their music is condoning their life style - speech?".

Than the brother answered: "You know what, forget my speech, lets go do door 105."

21

Thoughts during the meeting today

by stephanie61092 in

while i'm politely sitting during the meeting today, restraining myself from rolling my eyes as the brother drones on about how "having an independent spirit is devilish in nature" and "independence from gods organization only results in pain and strife", i only have one thought going through my mind over and over.

"what would happen if i pulled out a gun and blew my brains out in this kingdom hall?".

would anyone notice or care?

StephaneLaliberte

At one meeting, I saw an elder talk with anger to a disfellowshiped one who was there too early (10 minutes ahead of the program). This was so far out of the prodigal son story that I kept this story as one of the reasons for which I have left.

People care.

That being said, most are in denial. So, if you were to kill yourself there, they'd blame Satan and your mental state. Not themselves. Obviously, Jehovah's spirit would have protected you if you only had accepted it.

So, best way to make a difference? Show up politely, sitting at your place, 20 minutes ahead of the program, every time. People around you will be even more embarrassed by their own stupid rule than you could ever be.

19

The fraud that is the WT member numbers

by Crazyguy in

ok i'm just thinking out load here so to speak.

but let say in the year 2000 the wt says they have 1 million publishers and at the end of the year they say they had 300,000 people get baptized so in the beginning of the year 2001 they show 1,300,000 publishers.

then in this new year they state another 300,000 get baptized but with 50,000 deaths and 50,000 disfellowshippings they stated at the end of year 2001 a total of 1,500,000 total members.

StephaneLaliberte

ttdtt, you are right; without the actual baptized counts, it is impossible to know the real increase of the overall members. It just doesn't make sense.

They pressure unbaptized members telling them they are "not part of Jehovah's family" until they are baptized. You have doubt about this? Well, every time I heard people say yes to the baptism questions, the speaker always congratulated them for becoming part of Jehovah's great family of brothers and sisters. We now can call you brother and sister!

So, why than, count them in as Jehovah's Witnesses? A publisher is not IN the arc, he is at the door, contemplating the idea of walking in. When they say: There is 8 million Jehovah's Witnesses, that is wrong; they are closer to 7 million while the rest are not yet baptized.

40

WT Study 1/10/16 Encouraging Child Baptism And More Nonsense

by JW_Rogue in

i've noticed that each wt lesson really only has one or two points they want remembered.

normally they build up to these by about the third subheading.

this week's lesson though was different, the main point was insidiously made through an experience in the first paragraph:.

StephaneLaliberte

Two weeks ago, I had a conversation with a family member who is an experienced elder and I finally told him why I had stopped attending to the meetings (this might be subject for a new topic).

Anyways, in that long conversation, he asked me if I was not afraid of raising my kids outside of the organization. I told him that I was concerned about them becoming good people or not. And I felt that JWs would actually make it more difficult for me to achieve this goal.

I than named names of a) someone that was sent to jail for two years and did a lot of drugs. b) another that became an exotic dancers after being disfellowshipped. c) that elder's daughter that was known to be the school's "whore" d) one of my friends that was sexually abused by a stranger e) and at least a dozen more that cheated on their husband/wife as they felt they got married to young.

All of these people where raised JWs. Did the teaching protect them or actually made things more complicated for them and their family? If you have a kid that wants to do bad and leaves the house, what is best, to keep talking to your kid on a regular basis and urge them to turn around or ignore them until they do everything all by themselves? Which has the ring of truth? Which sounds like something that Jesus would preach about?

32

New WT pdf tells children to report. Irony?

by wifibandit in

pdf.

why won't watchtower tell abusers "i'm going to tell on you!

" and follow through with the proper authorities?

StephaneLaliberte

I take issue with the way watchtower presents its information. For instance, they have mentioned that victims have the right to report to the police. However, they did so, as far as I can tell, only three times, over the last 20 years(W2009, 9/1. p.23; W2005, 8/1 p.14; W2004, 6/22 p.25). When they mentioned it, it was either indirectly or given next to no space in the article.

On the other hand, they have provided cartoons and big drawings to explain to children how they can report it to their parents! By writing big, colorful articles like this, it leads people to believe that the society is doing something when in fact, it is not.

Please search for an article that addresses what to do when you are raped by a member of your family? What to do when it is a member of the congregation. How police and forensic science could help? How the congregation has dealt with "wolves" among itself.

There is no such article. These would obviously exist if the WT did not bury its head deep in the sand. Back in the 1950s, such reaction made sense. But we are now in 2016 and they should not be ignoring this simple fact: There are pedophiles in every organization; what makes a difference is how these organization handles the reports and not if there are in fact pedophiles.

However, for the WT, this fact is a problem in itself as JWs should be living in a spiritual paradise.

30

No more reporting time for field service!!!

by Khaleesi in

so at last i am in my next step of my fade, this month is the first month i did not turned in any hours.

i received a text from our group leader an ms & i told him i didn't have any to report, then of course it got bumped up to the elder & i text him back i have no hours to report for december.

i came to this decision when reading many posters here about the yearbook stats, i do not want & refused to contribute to this organization "boosting" numbers for their glorious purposes, after the rc in australia they do not deserve for me to give them a "production" report of what i do for god, no more.

StephaneLaliberte

Hey Khaleesi. I am glad to see you have the courage it takes to make the next move on your fade. However, I am puzzled by the steps in which you are making things. Perhaps that order is best for you and your congregation; as I am not living your situation, I cannot tell. However, usually, we stop attending the meetings for a few months and then, stop reporting time. Not the other way around. Doing so removes the stress of dealing with them at "the next meeting".

When I stopped reporting my time, I got phone calls and visits from a few JWs and elders. I was very pleasant and polite with everyone and reassured them that it was only temporary, even if I knew it was for good. Yeah, I know, I lied, but is that a bad thing when you are threatened? even if they do it out of "love and concern"?

Eventually, I told them nicely that I understood and appreciated their concerns and that I would call back on them when the time is right. Of course, that time never came.
At first, you may play the sick, depressed, "working too much" cards. These are things that they expect you to do or be. In short, you need to look as they would expect you to be, that is, miserable. If you don't, they could very well start a witch hunt on you and things could get much more complicated.

After a year or more, you will then be "allowed" to be yourself when you encounter JWs in your day to day life. I assure you, that moment will be one of the best in your life. It is than that JWs will know that you are actually happy and doing well, even better! And you won't need to worry about the elders, they won't follow up as you'll have been gone for too long.

Also, if in the meantime, some JWs keep coming to your house unannounced, you can be firm and yet polite: "Sorry, I don't mean to make you feel uncomfortable, but unannounced visits like this make ME feel uncomfortable. Here is an idea: Let me give you my email address so that next time you feel the urge to stop by, you will be able to send me an email instead."

32

The disappointed look on a Jehovah's Witness face - that you're living a good and fulfilling life

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

another thread got me thinking of this issue.

i don't think you'll ever come across a set of people with such a skewed and twisted outlook on life.. my memory serves me well when i recall a sort of blood lusting excitement over things like the 9/11 atrocities.

in fact i remember jw's describing the event as 'sad but exciting.

StephaneLaliberte

My wife and I have stopped attending. Since than, my wife is doing great in college and getting involved with the community, my kids are doing great in school and other activities, and I am doing very good at work. We are starting to do better financially, we look healthier and we have time to help people around us.

I know, from the limited contact I have with other JWs, that they are baffled by this.

Great Post Jambon1. I am bookmarking this thread.

49

Slightly different approach - JW my tradition

by closed in

hello everybody :) i have been visiting this forum for some time.

i noticed that many can't really free from the past in the org despite many years outside of jw.

i was awaken with a bang.

StephaneLaliberte

Hello Magnum, I read your comments and I can tell you that I was like you for a full decade. I was not in agreement with various teachings and could not get myself to teach or enforce these. Thus, I never became a ministerial servant or elder. Still, I believed that the bulk of the principles were good ones and that the organization helped me lead a clean Christian life.

That is, up until I had kids. It is then that I understood that I could not safely teach my views to my own kids as some of these contradicted the WT theology. Up until then, I didn’t agree with some teachings and while “waiting on Jehovah”, I overlooked these trivial matters. However, when I started studying with my kids, I wanted to pass along the alternative views on some topics and realized that I could not. What if my kids talked about these contradicting views to others? I could end up disfellowshiped! But how could such a situation ever happen with teachings that are trivial? Well, with time, I came to understand that it is the way that the society reacts to question that is not a trivial matter. They call for absolute unity and basically treat disagreements on details as cause for division. And yet, who is making a big deal out of it? The one that voiced an opinion or the one judging, organizing JCs and enforcing absolute unity? Who lacks humility? The one willing to call his brother an anti-christ, an apostate, based on small matters, are the one expressing a simple opinion?

Read the Sermon on the Mount and tell me what is more important: To show love to your brothers or to know biblical history? Read the story about the Samaritan and tell me what is more important: Helping his fellow human being or having a clear understanding of the Abrahamic dependence? The JWs have fallen into the same trap: They believe that knowledge while save them, all the while forgetting about love which is more important. And yet, most will priorities their meetings and field service over giving love to those around them. Most JW know a close friend or family member that they are now shunning while Jesus, on the other hand, helped the sinners. He didn’t come for those who were well, he came for the sick. Their view is: We’ll help the sick get better. But don’t get sick again, you’ll be shunned. How is this love? Knowing the names of the various Israelite kings will not save you. It is how you treat your neighbor that will.

I left because I wanted to spare my kids from this distorted view of love and Christianism.

152

If YOU had to make the decision, would you respect a JW relatives wish to refuse a blood transfusion?

by nicolaou in

a few years after i quit the meetings my mum needed her medical directive signed and witnessed and she asked if i'd do it.

i was surprised to say the least!.

i think she was just angling to include me and maybe find some lever to get me involved again.

StephaneLaliberte

I need to have a serious talk with my father about this topic and do it while he is healthy. Doing so now would be better than at the last minute, at the hospital.

I will ask him this very simple question: Please explain why the following passage does not apply to the blood ban. If not, than, what can we apply this to?

(Matthew 12:1-8) 12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples got hungry and started to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 At seeing this, the Pharisees said to him: “Look! Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them: “Have you not read what David did when he and the men with him were hungry? 4 How he entered into the house of God and they ate the loaves of presentation, something that it was not lawful for him or those with him to eat, but for the priests only? [..] 7 However, if you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones.”

On thing for sure, what ever his decision, however stupid I find it to be, I will respect it. We all die one day or another... at least, he will go on his terms. Just like people wearing "Do not resuscitate" cards/cloths. Its their call.

On the other hand, if that was my wife, I don't know if I would actually respect her wishes... she has kids depending on her. Thankfully, my wife is out with me and has nothing against blood transfusions.

14

Do you believe in a personal God?

by StephaneLaliberte in

there may be a god, but i doubt he has anything to do with us now.

i cannot reconcile concentration camps such as auschwitz, which i have visited, and people praying before their meal, thanking him, who did nothing.

here is an example: frank has a kid named johnny.

StephaneLaliberte

There may be a God, but I doubt he has anything to do with us now. I cannot reconcile concentration camps such as Auschwitz, which I have visited, and people praying before their meal, thanking him, who did nothing.

Here is an example: Frank has a kid named Johnny. Frank has always been a very good dad for his 8 years old son and has provided him with everything he needs. However, Frank see's that his neighbor often lets his big bad dog move around without a leach. He’s concerned for the safety of his kid as the dog barks, grunts and even jumps over the fence from time to time! Then, one day, while Frank drinks his beer, he sees that dog jump over the fence and finally attack his son.

Frank keeps drinking his beer, takes a pause and says: “I have seen your distress and I have heard your lamentations my son. And as sure as I am standing here today, there will be retribution for what this dog is doing to you. For I am Frank, your father, who will protect you, and this dog will feel my wrath and he will surely die … when I come.” And then, Frank keeps drinking his beer.

The kid dies. The dog, after being satisfied of a hasty meal, goes home, to the horror of the mother who comes home and sees what has happened. Frank still stands around, doing nothing, vowing that he will bring about vengeance to the dog.

What do you think everyone around will do? Thank Frank for the 8 years of being a good father?

Sure, life is full of beauty and I feel the love. But there is no excuse for the holocaust.

God saw the Nazis gather, talk, and plan out how they would kill his children by the millions. They used professionals that made engineering plans, passed laws, re-organized the government’s internal processes, drew new legal documents and procedures, not only to kill, but to steel everything that their victims. They designed and built the camps, the gas chambers, the stairs, the doors, the gas traps. Re purposed and redesigned railways. Dispatched armies to gather the Jews and other victims, etc. There are many things I am skipping here, but the point is that this was planned over, many years. Many years during which God saw exactly what was going to happen, then, saw it happen, and did nothing, absolutely nothing.

And you’re going to tell me that God provides food on my table or gives a fridge to a pioneer in need?