Data Dog, you are right, they won't disfellowship people for not giving in photocopies of their ADD. However, I do believe that those who do not follow that instruction will not be viewed as "privilege" material. And depending on the local BOE, some could live much greater pressure.
StephaneLaliberte
JoinedPosts by StephaneLaliberte
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103
NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM
by apocalypse ini have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".
the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".
this is huge.
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103
NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM
by apocalypse ini have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".
the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".
this is huge.
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StephaneLaliberte
Finkelstein: They would NOT disfellowship you only if they felt you gave in to fear. Hence, if you said "yes" to a blood transfusion moments before going under the knife and showed sincere remorse, they would not disfellowship you. However, if you have some other directive that overrides your JW's ADD (as suggested by apocalypse), than, that will show that you do not believe in their blood doctrine at all: you'll be disfellowshiped. -
103
NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM
by apocalypse ini have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".
the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".
this is huge.
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StephaneLaliberte
apocalypse: Up until this letter, you could go in ER, get a blood transfusion and the doctors would not talk to the elders about it. And if the elders ended up knowing about that transfusion somehow, you could say: "Oups, my bad... forgot to renew my ADD after I damaged my entire wallet while swimming in the lake." You wouldn't be DFd for this. You probably wouldn't loose any privileges as well!
Now, since the elders have a copy of a document with your signature on it, they could very well hear the doctor say: "I have another document that overrides what you have." With this information, they'll DF you.
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103
NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM
by apocalypse ini have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".
the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".
this is huge.
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StephaneLaliberte
As a reminder, you should provide copies of your completed Advance Decision document to (1) those who served as witnesses, (2) your General Practitioner (doctor), and (3) your congregation secretary.
This is coercion. Someone saying no to this instruction (not giving a copy of his ADD to the secretary), will be deemed week/not in good standing. Sure its not written word for word in the letter, but we know full well that this is what it is. Hence, privileges such as holding the mic, pioneering or saying prayers will be withheld. Eventually, with enough pressure, they will find that brother or sister at fault for other things and form a JC. While, all along, everything started with the brother not making a copy of his ADD.
You may believe that filling out the ADD, sending them copies and then, going to a lawyer and doctors to give them different sets of instruction will get you out of this gem. Well. No. The photocopy of your instructions will allow them to speak for you. At one point or another, the doctors will have to tell them that they do not have that right as the patient has signed other directives that override the photocopies you elders have. When that happens, you'll wake up and find yourself disfellowshiped. There is also the other scenario where your legal representatives are not even around in the hospital you land in. However, JWs manage to send in HLC elders with your photocopies in and then, you die for lack of blood.
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Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?
by prologos inin our congregation, the elders rarely comment.
the majority rarely comment, 2 sisters, vehemently, and often comment.
since in their case, it can not possibly be" teaching in the congregation", is participation in the wt "study"in general an affirmation of faith?
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StephaneLaliberte
As a group, yes. When the people do not have the freedom to truly express their minds, the only thing left is passive resistance. For instance, decreasing participation in the following areas: field service, comments at the hall, brothers reaching out for responsibilities, financial contributions, attendance at the meetings, construction projects, preparing (highlighting) the study articles, etc.
Personally, I decreased my participation in all these things EXCEPT for the comments! I truly enjoyed making “deep” comments while clearly being “a week one”. It was not the thought of helping others that drove me, it was the fact that I knew I was bothering many “spiritual” brothers who could not understand how I managed to do this while not doing anything else!
Heck, from time to time, I would even talk with brothers at the end of the meetings, explaining how their talk or comments were not always in line with current “new light”. Sure, there were some who were genuine and said thanks. These were not really fun as it was all “BS” to me anyway. My true pleasure and satisfaction was with the ones that would boil in anger while having to “take it” from a no body.
Boy, I’d go back just for those little moments. On second thoughts, naaaahh.
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Banned from the second school!
by purrpurr ini've been told by a jw friend that when her hall recently had a refurb that big changes were made to the second school.. one, a large sign has been placed on the door telling people not to use it and to sit in the main hall itself.. two,that all the chairs which used to face the large windows looking into the main hall are now side on to the window facing the wall instead.. this is because "so many people were sitting out in there!
people were finding all manner of exhuses to sit-in there and the brothers want us to all be together in the main hall!
" she said.. of course i didn't tell her what i really thought of this but seriously?
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StephaneLaliberte
Depending on the days, I would use the second hall anytime I felt that my kids were being to disruptive. Every once in a while, a brother would walk in and advise me to go back to the main hall. Then I'd say, jokingly: Oh boy, I'd love that. If only I could, believe me I would." Once, a brother was insistent and asked me why.... I told him: "I already lost too much of my program by now. Can't we talk about that later?"
Also, I remember, one of the last Circuit Assembly, I was outraged to see that brothers were walking around with "Take Your Seats" posters 10 minutes before the musical program. Within minutes, everyone were sitting at their chair and the music hadn't even started yet! I was pissed cause what's the point of going to a convention if it is not to talk with friends?
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Just because the JW'S are wrong doesnt mean theres no god.
by atomant inl;ve been giving this some serious consideration lately.l dont have all the answers no one does.we are all entitled to our opinions.l certainly dont believe in evolution as lve researched that subject extensively.lt's important to believe in something even if its for mental health.l believe everything happens for a reason.l also believe if we all live as close to the 10 commandments as possible this world would be a far better place to live and no one can argue with that.
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StephaneLaliberte
The subject here is not to debate the existence of God; rather, it is the belief that leaving the JWs will lead to atheism while abandoning ones good principles.
In reality, for many, it is actually the opposite: They first stopped believing in God (or a personal God), and then left the witnesses. In addition, for many, leaving the JWs have opened the door to even higher principles. For instance, many now take time at their disposal to participate in various forms of charity. Some have rekindled with long lost relatives and provided loving assistance in circumstances where the disfellowshipping arrangement would have prevented them to do so.
Many religion scare their followers in telling them they that they are bad people and the only reason they don’t submit to their true desires is that they are reminded on a regular basis, at church, no to succumb to sin. However, this belief obviously fall apart when someone resists to persecutions, in isolations, for many years.
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New document leaked
by neat blue dog inform for congregation elders to fill out after giving "encouragement", check boxes for "gave a compliment", "read a scripture", "put hand on shoulder", or "other".
must be signed and dated.. s81t-e form.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dropbox.com/&ved=0ahukewismqe21-3lahvm2r4khauxcsgqfggqmae&usg=afqjcnhnytvlfnpbduvpcoptljpavhka8g&sig2=peohjnvvagahqz8q5_5-iq.
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StephaneLaliberte
AHHAHAHHAHAHA, and I fell for it! -
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300 books and magazines placed outside The Shard
by pleaseresearch inhi all.. so i got a txt today from a very proud mum claiming that, the jw cart produced 300 book and magazine placements.
mostly from foreign speakers.. the shard is the tallest building in the uk.
this is where the cart was placed.. not a bad day they had really.
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StephaneLaliberte
Probably she did like I used to do when I was doing street witnessing: Here, this is yours, its free. And basically run away when people took it. -
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300 books and magazines placed outside The Shard
by pleaseresearch inhi all.. so i got a txt today from a very proud mum claiming that, the jw cart produced 300 book and magazine placements.
mostly from foreign speakers.. the shard is the tallest building in the uk.
this is where the cart was placed.. not a bad day they had really.
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StephaneLaliberte
The problem with these reports is that it is reported as if distribution is a success by itself. However, the success of an advertising campaign is never measured by the number of flyers that were distributed. Rather, it is measured on the rate of response from these.
Hence, a success report should read: We have distributed 300 publications. From these, 10 have reported to have read the book. 4 reported that it had a positive influence for them and 2 have started bible studies.
If all the 300 recipients simply read the first 2 pages and threw the publications away, than, that is not success, it is simply a loss of resources.