Posts by StephaneLaliberte

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

I think I have the perfect answer for that one:

If an elder, or anyone pushes you to sign the card and give them a sample, ask them to read the 8th statement:

STATEMENT OF WITNESSES: The person who signed this document did so in my presence. He or she appears to be of sound mind and free from duress, fraud or undue influence. I am 18 years of age or older.

Then say: According to that statement, you should hand me that piece of paper and let me do what ever I please with it, never suggesting further actions on my part. I know you want that statement to be truthful and not a lie, or a half truth, so, I expect your full collaboration to leave the matter with me and not pressure me in any way.

If for some reason this derails all the way through to your disfellowshipping (which would actually surprise me), than you have an amazing legal case on your hands. Especially if you record every communication you have with them.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

And if there are elders snooping around, they could show up at the hospital, with your photocopied ADD and the witnesses that signed it with you and then, that would be enough for the hospital for you not to get a BT. I would never risk it.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

Data Dog, you are right, they won't disfellowship people for not giving in photocopies of their ADD. However, I do believe that those who do not follow that instruction will not be viewed as "privilege" material. And depending on the local BOE, some could live much greater pressure.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

Finkelstein: They would NOT disfellowship you only if they felt you gave in to fear. Hence, if you said "yes" to a blood transfusion moments before going under the knife and showed sincere remorse, they would not disfellowship you. However, if you have some other directive that overrides your JW's ADD (as suggested by apocalypse), than, that will show that you do not believe in their blood doctrine at all: you'll be disfellowshiped.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

apocalypse: Up until this letter, you could go in ER, get a blood transfusion and the doctors would not talk to the elders about it. And if the elders ended up knowing about that transfusion somehow, you could say: "Oups, my bad... forgot to renew my ADD after I damaged my entire wallet while swimming in the lake." You wouldn't be DFd for this. You probably wouldn't loose any privileges as well!

Now, since the elders have a copy of a document with your signature on it, they could very well hear the doctor say: "I have another document that overrides what you have." With this information, they'll DF you.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

As a reminder, you should provide copies of your completed Advance Decision document to (1) those who served as witnesses, (2) your General Practitioner (doctor), and (3) your congregation secretary.

This is coercion. Someone saying no to this instruction (not giving a copy of his ADD to the secretary), will be deemed week/not in good standing. Sure its not written word for word in the letter, but we know full well that this is what it is. Hence, privileges such as holding the mic, pioneering or saying prayers will be withheld. Eventually, with enough pressure, they will find that brother or sister at fault for other things and form a JC. While, all along, everything started with the brother not making a copy of his ADD.

You may believe that filling out the ADD, sending them copies and then, going to a lawyer and doctors to give them different sets of instruction will get you out of this gem. Well. No. The photocopy of your instructions will allow them to speak for you. At one point or another, the doctors will have to tell them that they do not have that right as the patient has signed other directives that override the photocopies you elders have. When that happens, you'll wake up and find yourself disfellowshiped. There is also the other scenario where your legal representatives are not even around in the hospital you land in. However, JWs manage to send in HLC elders with your photocopies in and then, you die for lack of blood.

23

Wt "study" Participation, is it a "True Believer" Indication?-- or not?

by prologos in

in our congregation, the elders rarely comment.

the majority rarely comment, 2 sisters, vehemently, and often comment.

since in their case, it can not possibly be" teaching in the congregation", is participation in the wt "study"in general an affirmation of faith?

StephaneLaliberte

As a group, yes. When the people do not have the freedom to truly express their minds, the only thing left is passive resistance. For instance, decreasing participation in the following areas: field service, comments at the hall, brothers reaching out for responsibilities, financial contributions, attendance at the meetings, construction projects, preparing (highlighting) the study articles, etc.

Personally, I decreased my participation in all these things EXCEPT for the comments! I truly enjoyed making “deep” comments while clearly being “a week one”. It was not the thought of helping others that drove me, it was the fact that I knew I was bothering many “spiritual” brothers who could not understand how I managed to do this while not doing anything else!

Heck, from time to time, I would even talk with brothers at the end of the meetings, explaining how their talk or comments were not always in line with current “new light”. Sure, there were some who were genuine and said thanks. These were not really fun as it was all “BS” to me anyway. My true pleasure and satisfaction was with the ones that would boil in anger while having to “take it” from a no body.

Boy, I’d go back just for those little moments. On second thoughts, naaaahh.

34

Banned from the second school!

by purrpurr in

jw
friends

i've been told by a jw friend that when her hall recently had a refurb that big changes were made to the second school.. one, a large sign has been placed on the door telling people not to use it and to sit in the main hall itself.. two,that all the chairs which used to face the large windows looking into the main hall are now side on to the window facing the wall instead.. this is because "so many people were sitting out in there!

people were finding all manner of exhuses to sit-in there and the brothers want us to all be together in the main hall!

" she said.. of course i didn't tell her what i really thought of this but seriously?

StephaneLaliberte

Depending on the days, I would use the second hall anytime I felt that my kids were being to disruptive. Every once in a while, a brother would walk in and advise me to go back to the main hall. Then I'd say, jokingly: Oh boy, I'd love that. If only I could, believe me I would." Once, a brother was insistent and asked me why.... I told him: "I already lost too much of my program by now. Can't we talk about that later?"

Also, I remember, one of the last Circuit Assembly, I was outraged to see that brothers were walking around with "Take Your Seats" posters 10 minutes before the musical program. Within minutes, everyone were sitting at their chair and the music hadn't even started yet! I was pissed cause what's the point of going to a convention if it is not to talk with friends?

63

Just because the JW'S are wrong doesnt mean theres no god.

by atomant in

l;ve been giving this some serious consideration lately.l dont have all the answers no one does.we are all entitled to our opinions.l certainly dont believe in evolution as lve researched that subject extensively.lt's important to believe in something even if its for mental health.l believe everything happens for a reason.l also believe if we all live as close to the 10 commandments as possible this world would be a far better place to live and no one can argue with that.

StephaneLaliberte

The subject here is not to debate the existence of God; rather, it is the belief that leaving the JWs will lead to atheism while abandoning ones good principles.

In reality, for many, it is actually the opposite: They first stopped believing in God (or a personal God), and then left the witnesses. In addition, for many, leaving the JWs have opened the door to even higher principles. For instance, many now take time at their disposal to participate in various forms of charity. Some have rekindled with long lost relatives and provided loving assistance in circumstances where the disfellowshipping arrangement would have prevented them to do so.

Many religion scare their followers in telling them they that they are bad people and the only reason they don’t submit to their true desires is that they are reminded on a regular basis, at church, no to succumb to sin. However, this belief obviously fall apart when someone resists to persecutions, in isolations, for many years.

3

New document leaked

by neat blue dog in

form for congregation elders to fill out after giving "encouragement", check boxes for "gave a compliment", "read a scripture", "put hand on shoulder", or "other".

must be signed and dated.. s81t-e form.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dropbox.com/&ved=0ahukewismqe21-3lahvm2r4khauxcsgqfggqmae&usg=afqjcnhnytvlfnpbduvpcoptljpavhka8g&sig2=peohjnvvagahqz8q5_5-iq.

StephaneLaliberte

AHHAHAHHAHAHA, and I fell for it!