Posts by StephaneLaliberte

58

Jehovah's Witness Church Release Statement

by truthseekeriam in

jw
friends

"we are saddened to hear about the death of prince rogers nelson, who was baptized as one of jehovah’s witnesses in 2003," the church said in a statement obtained by people.

the church said that prince "found fulfillment as a witness and in sharing his faith with others.

http://www.people.com/article/prince-dead-jehovah-witness-release-statement.

StephaneLaliberte

First of, I loved prince. I believe he tried to be good and do good. But I also find it hard to believe that he didn't smoke, had sex or use any type of non prescribed drugs in the last 13 years. Especially the "no sex" for a sex symbol. I find that very hard to believe.

15

Hubby got asked the loyalty questions

by atacrossroads in

jw
friends

after hubby skipped out on the memorial his parents and close friends started getting more assertive with him.

before they took on the role of the concerned let me rescue you from your apostate wife's clutches.

it's 100% my fault he stopped being a witness according to the inlaws.

StephaneLaliberte

Oh, the loyalty questions. I would answer in an correct, yet shocking way:

Me: Oh yeah. I do believe in the Faithful, slave. I much prefer to be wrong with the watchtower than then to think for myself.

Them: Wait, what?

Me: Well, for instance, when Jesus chose brother Rutherford and his helpers back in 1919, they did things and believed things that, by now, are so wrong that they are worthy of disfellowshipping, they would be worthy of being thrown into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Heck, possible eternal destruction, right? But Jesus has shown that he can over look these things as long as we are in the right group, the JWs. So, clearly, what's the point of thinking by myself... I prefer to let the 7 brothers in New York do the thinking for me.

Them: Are you sarcastic?

Me: Did I say something wrong? Sure I'm supposed to convince myself of the truth... the problem is, I was baptized 20 years ago. In 20 years, the brothers in New York changed their minds on a lot of things. They are allowed to do that. But me, I am not allowed to change my mind on even a comma if it is not exactly in line with the 7 brothers. Come to think of it, does their votes on changes have to be unanimous? Anyway. If I change my mind, Jehovah will kill me. If I change my mind with the brothers in New York and am still wrong, well, at least, I'm safe. So, my personal conscience is in their hands as they are the ones chosen by God.

Them: Uhhhhhh....

----

Of course, that is in my fantasy. They never actually asked me the loyalty question.... yet.

32

Where is the Rebel.

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

who cares?.

the first time i was in distress with the watchtower, i was fortunate to find this place.

my ego thought ,i was somehow special, that my posts were reaching a worldwide audience, and most of all i felt at ease, maybe home is a better word.

StephaneLaliberte

I have been on this forum for 9 years. Most of these years, I was still in and not fully awake. Strangely, I knew the TTATT, felt compelled to read about it and even share some topics. However, somehow, I still believed that the JW were doing greater good than harm at the time. Still, as I was unable to talk about the negative things, I was coming here to let off steam.

Now that I am out, I am still on this forum as I do believe many JWs read our posts. I like to consider my post generally moderate and as such, I am sure many JWs read them without being overly shocked. I also hope that through this forum, many people, especially the young ones, will understand that leaving the JW does not equate to throwing your life away.

Objectively, the JW religion is a topic of which I, and many on this forum, are experts at and this compels me to take some form of action. As I am also presently forced to remain anonymous, I believe participating on this forum is a good way to take actions.

I also hope that one day, I will go through my comments and topic and create some type of blog or write a few articles on the matters. So, one way or another, this work isn’t lost.

32

what sort of reactions have you gotten when talking to other jw when telling them the "truth about the truth"?

by AmIright in

its funny ive read some stories on here about how they have become so infuriated by what logic dictates as being true and their own denying of it because it completely screws up their belief and shows how hypocritical it is xd some look like a nuclear reactor about to blow xd.

share you experiences here :) .

StephaneLaliberte

First, to understand the reactions of the people to who I have shared TTATT, you have to understand that I did not leave due to any sin or any other reasons then an actual disagreement with the teachings.<ép>

My Dad: He was shocked and tried to reason with me over many, many hours of conversations on the matter. In the end, he could not explain away anything or reason out any of the serious issues that I had raised. Still, to my disbelief, he was so “indoctrinated” that, for the following two years, he was condescending towards me for not raising my kids in the truth and not attending meetings. However, as time went by, he could see that I took care of my kids, wife, mom, friends and others in various ways. I than had a serious exchange of emails with him where he finally conceded that actions were louder than words. Hence, it is better to do good deeds and not attend any KH than to attend the KH and barely have anytime left to do any good. We keep seeing each other and do things with the kids. We still talk about the JWs, however, I try to limit what I say as I believe that at this time in his life, the JWs are actually the best thing for him, so why burst his bubble? The only thing I could not accept from him was a lack of respect and a judgemental attitude toward my life choices. Now that I have his respect, I respect him as well for his choices and we are both happy with that.

My in-law: It was not easy at all for them. I could feel some serious tension between us for many months. But as time went by, they got to see that we were not going crazy as the WT’s teachings imply. We did not divorce, we didn’t become smokers, pot heads or an alcoholics. We haven’t become degenerates, swear and talking trash. In fact, they have seen the opposite. We are actually better people. We help more, listen more, we’re more productive, and do more activities with the kids and family. So, essentially, we gained their respect. In addition, though they believe that JWs have the truth, they never believed in the disfellowshipping teaching. So, we respect each other. They don’t teach our kids about the JWs and we help them download their magazines.

My uncle: For two years, he never asked me why, so I never told him either. Until, one day, we had a long conversation. He asked me why I left. I first told him that I was talking to the uncle, not the elder, and told him everything. I was surprised by the amount of understanding that I got from him. In short, he appears to already respect me and my stand and that it’s a shame that the society could not keep me in as they need capable brothers to help others. Since then, to my surprise, nothing changed about our relationship.

Friend #1: I simply told him that I did not agree with the teachings and could not see myself passing these on to my kids. I did not tell him which teachings though as he never asked. I also made it clear to him that I did not think any less of him for staying in the JWs and that I would not stop considering him a friend. We still keep contact through Skype from time to time and never talk about the JWs. However, honestly, that relationship is far from what it used to be. I believe I did lose that friend.

Friend #2: When I told him I did not want to stay in, he came to see me and we had a two hour conversation concerning TTATT. To be honest, I think he underestimated how serious I was about this at the time. I basically told him that I believed that the JW spent more energy talking about doing good rather than actually doing it. However, it seems that I haven’t convinced him and it looks like he believed that I would probably come back to my senses within a few months since I wasn’t doing anything wrong. When he learned that I didn’t go to the memorial however, it sort of sunk in a little more. Now, we talk from time to time, but mostly about business related matters.

Other friends: They never called and never asked why I stopped going to the meetings. They were supposed to be real friends, 15+ years. Turns out they weren’t.

Local elders: I never told them why. They asked. I told them I needed time. I never wanted to risk it with them, so I kept my mouth shut.

In short, I have told only people that asked to be told and that I felt were close enough to deserve the truth. The reality is that being inactive rather than DA is a really good thing for me as it allows us to keep a normal relationship with our family.

11

$13.5M award vacated in Jehovah’s Witness abuse case

by StephaneLaliberte in

ruling gives church chance to turn over disputed documents.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/14/jehovahs-witness-lopez-sex-abuse-appeal/.

StephaneLaliberte

I have seen brothers (Including myself), act as big brothers when studying with young boys. Invite them to social activities, small work, spiritual activities. This is actually a really good thing as it can provide a sort of responsible "father figure" to otherwise, lost kids. But it is totally disastrous if the big brother is a pedophile.

11

$13.5M award vacated in Jehovah’s Witness abuse case

by StephaneLaliberte in

ruling gives church chance to turn over disputed documents.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/14/jehovahs-witness-lopez-sex-abuse-appeal/.

StephaneLaliberte

Ruling gives church chance to turn over disputed documents

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/14/jehovahs-witness-lopez-sex-abuse-appeal/

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

Dam, Blondie, you are right, this has been around since 2004! So, all this is basically over the changing of a word :

"You may also want to provide copies ... " (2004)

to

"As a reminder, you should provide copies ..." (2016)

I don't know how the enforcement will play out but I suspect that they could become harder with time. However, in all honesty, it seems that my elders simply ignored the "photocopy" suggestion made in 2004! Never felt pressured in that aspect.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

Bafh, you are right, the "no duress/undue-influence" statement was there before, however, you could easily sign it and throw it away. This is exactly what I did for many years when I was in.

This time, its different: The brothers and sisters receive the instruction to make at least three (3) photocopies: Two for the two witnesses that signed it and one for the secretary of the congregation. In addition, to ensure absolute compliance, they even request access to your medical records! Hence, the "no duress/undue-influence" statement cannot possibly be true today!

Now, how could not signing this ADD derail all the way to disfellowshipping? Imagine this: The secretary of the congregation repeatedly ask a brother for his photocopies: "Don't take it wrong brother, but it feels like you don't want to make photocopies. We have a photocopier right here in the hall, I can help you with this. This arrangement is made to protect you. Why would you reject it? Do you at least keep your card with you?" With unceasing questioning, the brother could become exasperated and tell the Elder that he doesn't believe in the blood doctrine and won't carry the card, nor make photocopies. With loving kindness, the Elder than visit the brother with a second elder to help him come to his senses. As those Elders are unable to convince the brother who has been lead astray, they then form a comity for Apostasy. This scenario is not all that far fetched.

15 years ago, a brother looked into my wallet (while I paid for something) and noticed I didn't have my ADD. He brought one at the following meeting where I signed it on the spot with two witnesses. Today, I realize that this was "undue influence". But at least, I still had the option to threw that newly signed card away. Today, they want photocopies and your medical record! I think that there is room for legal matter over this.

If anyone has copies of the Canadian instructions and Cards, please let me know as I think I will bring this to the attention of my local hospitals.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

I think I have the perfect answer for that one:

If an elder, or anyone pushes you to sign the card and give them a sample, ask them to read the 8th statement:

STATEMENT OF WITNESSES: The person who signed this document did so in my presence. He or she appears to be of sound mind and free from duress, fraud or undue influence. I am 18 years of age or older.

Then say: According to that statement, you should hand me that piece of paper and let me do what ever I please with it, never suggesting further actions on my part. I know you want that statement to be truthful and not a lie, or a half truth, so, I expect your full collaboration to leave the matter with me and not pressure me in any way.

If for some reason this derails all the way through to your disfellowshipping (which would actually surprise me), than you have an amazing legal case on your hands. Especially if you record every communication you have with them.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

StephaneLaliberte

And if there are elders snooping around, they could show up at the hospital, with your photocopied ADD and the witnesses that signed it with you and then, that would be enough for the hospital for you not to get a BT. I would never risk it.