Posts by StephaneLaliberte

44

Poll: Atheists overwhelmingly oppose the death penalty, but most Christians favor it

by Disillusioned JW in

see https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/06/16/poll-atheists-overwhelmingly-oppose-the-death-penalty-most-christians-favor-it/ .

i am an atheist and i disapprove of the death penalty.

i remember michael dukakis, when he was a usa presidential candidate, saying i he was opposed to the death penalty - even for rapists and murderers.

StephaneLaliberte

The only reason I'm against the death penalty is in how it is applied. It tends to be more expensive than keeping someone locked up for life and there are times where innocents have been executed. The thought of a country executing an innocent person is absolutely repulsive to me.

8

Unnoticed 2018 merger in Qubec

by Corney in

three years ago, on september 1 - 4, 2018, watch tower society of quebec (la tour de garde, société de bibles et de traités du québec), finalised its merger ("voluntary amlgamation") with "123 incorporated congregations of jehovah's witnesses in quebec," with kingdom halls owned by these incorporated congregations (total book value - ca$114,390,856, or 92 million usd) becoming assets of the society.

quebec congregations continue to exist as unincorporated associations and registered charities, while wt quebec only "manages, maintains and constructs" khs ("in cooperation with" wt canada and jw congregation support (formerly regional building committee)) and appoints certain elders to officiate marriages in the province.. sources: .

https://apps.cra-arc.gc.ca/ebci/hacc/srch/pub/dsplybscsrch .

StephaneLaliberte

I don't understand this move. I really don't. Now, if they are sued for something, kingdom halls and assembly halls could be seized. I don't get it.

14

Describe life as a JW.

by Overrated in

jw
friends

under constant watch of other jw.

being told how your life is run.

everything you do under a microscope.

StephaneLaliberte

Its actually a pretty good delusional life if you agree with everything. I would suspect that the highest source of concern would be the regular reminders that you could do more for Jehovah. Sure, plenty of JWs are perfectly happy with their “service”, aka: performance, however, dissatisfaction is more likely due to these constant reminders, especially when they read the “good-for-nothing slaves; we've only done [y]our duty” comment from Jesus (Luke 17:10).

And than, things get worst when you start to disagree with key teachings. You start to notice that the following constant reminder now applies to you: Don’t be prideful, don’t trust in your own judgment, let it go, wait upon Jehovah and put your trust in him.

If you don’t believe to be prideful, then, that’s one more teaching you don’t accept. This creates a disconnect between you and the religious group. You may try to rationalize things (like my mom), but this isn’t the best life either. You’ll be forced to pretend that all is fine when these teachings are covered at the meetings or in field service. This will make you a “phony” with those you love, your friends and family. You will also become paranoid at what could happen if “they found out”.

The very fact of being paranoid and phony with people you should trust and love is no way to live. You cannot be happy this way. Even if you try to take “the best” out of that religion, you will not be happy. Some may continue to live that way for a long time, and many more will leave the group.

15

What Do You Know of JWs Getting Away With Stuff?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i realized that teenagers and young witness adults were getting away with murder per my daughter.

she told me that all these exemplary young people featured at assemblies and conventions were not real good examples.

after she got married years ago to a “ worldly “ man, she told me about all the kids who were fornicating and getting drunk and high, including elder’s kids.

StephaneLaliberte

In my early 20s, "I was straight as an arrow". I once attended a party organized by JWs in Montreal and it was similar to a rave where there was loud techno music and people were dancing real close. I was the one driving my friends, so I ended up going to my car and waited for everyone there. I prepared my meetings, read WT magazines and books that were in my car. Never told on anyone.

At the time, I felt super spiritual and judged others, but looking back, I realize I was the one who lacked control. A lot of these kids were happy to simply flirt and dance and stop there. In my case, I would have wanted more, so I had to step out of there entirely. Like an alcoholic that doesn't even take a slip of alcohol.

Now that I'm raising my kids, I realize that all the consequences that comes along with "sinning" are enough: dramas (crazy girlfriends, heartaches, crazy Ex's, gossip, etc), STDs and pregnancies. No need for the congregations to add more. Religions should instead help these kids navigate through this difficult time rather than making their lives even more difficult than it already is.

15

What Do You Know of JWs Getting Away With Stuff?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i realized that teenagers and young witness adults were getting away with murder per my daughter.

she told me that all these exemplary young people featured at assemblies and conventions were not real good examples.

after she got married years ago to a “ worldly “ man, she told me about all the kids who were fornicating and getting drunk and high, including elder’s kids.

StephaneLaliberte

I think this really changes from congregation to congregation. I have seen kids "get away" with fornication as they denied everything and were protected by the two witness rule. As to know if the parents were behind this... I don't know.

What I can share though is that there was an elder in one of my congregation that was reproved and lost his privileges. Turns out he had been aware of bad things his son was doing and didn't turn him in. The other elders, who also had kids, didn't let that slide and everyone knew about it. About that elder: he was loved by everyone and even after he lost his privileges, he was still loved by everyone. It seems like the general feeling at the time was that no one actually judged him for it, but "the law is the law" and he was removed. I believe that he got back to be an elder roughly a decade later.

Point is, it depends on the congregations.

10

Raising a teenager outside of “the truth”

by StephaneLaliberte in

i was raised as a jw and left the group as many of the teachings don’t align with my core values.

now, forward almost 10 years, my wife and i are raising our kids through puberty and i have to admit, this challenge is not easy and seems to be even more difficult in that my own upbringing was very different.

i find it hard to compare how i was raised with what i now must do for my own kids.

StephaneLaliberte

stephan, you still have to have a list of principles from your distant Past

I agree! I explained to my kids that though we don't believe in religion anymore we still need to consider well known principles and values found within religious communities. A great many of these are well founded and beneficial while some others are down right harmful. We need to use better judgement and carefully weight to consequences of each actions.

10

Raising a teenager outside of “the truth”

by StephaneLaliberte in

i was raised as a jw and left the group as many of the teachings don’t align with my core values.

now, forward almost 10 years, my wife and i are raising our kids through puberty and i have to admit, this challenge is not easy and seems to be even more difficult in that my own upbringing was very different.

i find it hard to compare how i was raised with what i now must do for my own kids.

StephaneLaliberte

I was raised as a JW and left the group as many of the teachings don’t align with my core values. Now, forward almost 10 years, My wife and I are raising our kids through puberty and I have to admit, this challenge is not easy and seems to be even more difficult in that my own upbringing was very different. I find it hard to compare how I was raised with what I now must do for my own kids.

With JWs, the child’s upbringing is basically managed through the religion. Meetings, books, magazines, videos, and other members of the congregation, they all push the same religious values and parents feel that their burden is made easy this way.

But the truth is that this doesn’t work. Plenty of kids lead double lives and eventually get into horrible problems such as STDs, pregnancies, street gangs, and drugs, etc. To maintain the illusion of a spiritual paradise, JWs disfellowship these kids and keep them out of sight; some parents even end up throwing them out of their house and put all the burden of the “failure” on the kids who did not listen. They fail to understand that it is them and their approach that puts their kids at risk.

Now that I’m a father, I realize I need to have a much stronger relationship with my kids than I ever had with my own Dad, who, by they way, I very much respect. The dynamics is different. While I would get a lot of teachings from my religion, now my kids get it solely from my wife and I. That makes it much more work, but I also believe that the reward is greater.

For instance, instead of telling our kids “no” to girlfriends, we guide them on how to find and maintain healthy love relationships and how to avoid the dangers that come with this. It’s several hours of conversations and ironically makes me think of that bible passage that says: "talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise". Its constant communication. This week, I saw some positive results: my oldest kid ended a toxic relationship and took that decision by himself; we did not have to impose it on him.

As our kids are still young, we’re at the very beginning of this battle and all we can do is show them the way, help them understand the benefits and the dangers, never giving up on them and, well, hope for the best.

I felt I should share this experience here as it feels mysterious and uncertain due to our JW upbringing.

49

What Were You or Someone You Knew Counseled For That Was Ridiculous?

by minimus in

jw
friends

back in the day, tons of witnesses were brought in the “back room “ to be counseled by elders because of their dress and grooming.

some elders frowned on mustaches or hair that went past a certain point on a male.

women were regularly harassed because their skirt was too long or too short or had a slit on the side.

StephaneLaliberte

- When my sister passed away, two elders came to my house and asked me not to use this as an excuse to talk to my disfellowshipped mother.

- I went to a restaurant to talk with a disfellowshipped member of my family to discuss family matters. Someone in the family told the elders and they sat down with me to talk about it, warning me not to do it again.

29

Why did Lloyd Evans say in one of his latest video

by mickbobcat in

so i was watching an evans video he just put out where he was interviewing a man about how the cult treated his daughter who was rapped as a criminal.

the man said his wife's first experience with an apostate site was here.

i could tell by the look on his face he did not like that site and then could not help himself and said that he could not recommend going to this site.

StephaneLaliberte

I agree with him, I couldn’t recommend this site to newly awakening dubs, it no longer does what it says on the tin.

While I agree with you there, I can also point out that he often says things that would dissuade many PIMIs. For instance, he often makes fun of the Governing Body and often use language that convey a lack of respect for Christian beliefs, especially the JWs. While I personally find it entertaining, I don't believe he is in a position to criticize others for not being "soft enough" for the newly awakening JWs. Just calling them "dubs" isn't very respectful, is it?

In all fairness, I believe Lloyd and this site are for people that are already awaken, but need an extra push to take further actions in their lives. Some may be PIMO, but I'd assume that most are already POMO. Most people leave for one or two reason in particular. Going on this site and listening to Lloyd then broaden your understanding of how a cult like JWs could manipulate you for so long through disinformation, propaganda and your emotions.

I'd assume that https://www.jwfacts.com/ would be better suited for people who have doubts about their religion but haven't made up their minds yet.

29

Why did Lloyd Evans say in one of his latest video

by mickbobcat in

so i was watching an evans video he just put out where he was interviewing a man about how the cult treated his daughter who was rapped as a criminal.

the man said his wife's first experience with an apostate site was here.

i could tell by the look on his face he did not like that site and then could not help himself and said that he could not recommend going to this site.

StephaneLaliberte

I must admit that I listen to most of Lloyd's videos. I do find many of them too be a bit to windy, so I play them at 1.5x speed. I find a lot of information and video edits from the watchtower interesting.

As for him making a living off of that, in my opinion, is not manipulating people for his profit. He is providing a service (information, interviews, videos, documentation, etc) and is paid for that. Manipulating is the watchtower telling people they cannot be happy without them. Lloyd never made any such comments and often said that people are in a better place when they no longer need his videos and to talk about JWs like this in their lives, when they can all leave it behind.

I can't leave it behind as, like him, I live with my JW in-laws.

That being said, the other comments made on this thread are valid. The very fact he's against this board is a problem in and of itself. People on this board are reasonable enough, I believe the only thing he doesn't like about it is that he is not on control of the information. When he says something, people can comment and say opposite things and he doesn't have the ability to edit it out.

As for me? I tend to try to take the best out of people. The best I have from this group is the variety of opinions and the best I get from Lloyd is a steady stream of information about the JWs.