Posts by StephaneLaliberte

22

Don’t Trust the Courts! Splane’s Latest Anti-Apostate Talk

by StephaneLaliberte in

david splane’s talk “put up a hard fight for the faith” was that last talk presented on the saturday of the annual convention.

this talk was to largely address apostates and restated ideas and arguments often presented before.

however, this year, watchtower is spending more time in disqualifying negative findings originating from secular courts and here is the segment of interest here: .

StephaneLaliberte

Rattigan350: So Splane is right. We can't trust juries.

I agree that no one should put their full trust in juries, especially when we consider all the innocent people that have been thrown in jail by a jury of their peers. The system isn't perfect and injustice happen. Still, these injustices are not the majority of the rulings. In most cases, the judgement is sound and righteous. Yet, listening to Splane, seems like every ruling against WT has Satan whispering in the judge's and jury's ears, which is plain wrong and a very dangerous way of manipulating their members.

Court rulings are recorded, documented and follow a process where they can be reviewed and contested. The WT way is to basically bully their members not to discuss these things at all, preventing them from forming their own opinion.

22

Don’t Trust the Courts! Splane’s Latest Anti-Apostate Talk

by StephaneLaliberte in

david splane’s talk “put up a hard fight for the faith” was that last talk presented on the saturday of the annual convention.

this talk was to largely address apostates and restated ideas and arguments often presented before.

however, this year, watchtower is spending more time in disqualifying negative findings originating from secular courts and here is the segment of interest here: .

StephaneLaliberte

David Splane’s Talk “Put Up a Hard Fight For the Faith” was that last talk presented on the Saturday of the Annual convention. This talk was to largely address apostates and restated ideas and arguments often presented before. However, this year, Watchtower is spending more time in disqualifying negative findings originating from secular courts and here is the segment of interest here:

“Charged and investigated. That doesn’t mean he’s guilty. Or supposed that someone is convicted and put in jail. That would apply to our young brothers in Korea. They were convicted and jailed. And what was their crime? They refused to kill someone. Did they do anything wrong? Or someone is found guilty by man, as Jesus was, that doesn’t mean that he is guilty in the sight of God.
So brothers, we really have to think about these things, we may read that a person or organization was sued and than settled out of court. Does settling out of court mean that they were guilty? Not necessarily. Court cases are often handled by a jury. Now who are on the jury? Ordinary citizens with no legal training. Not only that, these ordinary citizens don’t always have access to all the facts. Because the judge and lawyers decide which facts will be shared with the jury. So its unlikely that the whole truth will ever come out in court. Actually, neither sides probably wants the whole truth to come out in court.
But someone would say, no! I don’t believe in settling out of court. I believe in justice and truth! So that bring up the question: Is it wrong to settle a matter before it goes to trial? Or is it scriptural? Lets let Jesus answer that question: Turn to Matthew chapter 5, verse 25 and 26. Interesting that Jesus should mention this with all the important things that Jesus thought.
Be quick to settle matters with your legal opponent while you are with him on your way there so that somehow the opponent may not turn you to the judge and the judge to the court attendant and you get thrown into prison. I say to you for a fact you will certainly not come out of there until you have paid over your last small coin.
Now this is interesting, think about the mosaic law. Was there any provision in the mosaic law to throw someone in jail if he couldn’t pay a debt? That wasn’t the way. If he couldn’t pay, he’d have to work it off. Or a family member would have to work it off. So when Jesus talks about prison and a judge, he’s obviously referring to what a gentile judge would do. And you couldn’t necessarily expect justice from him. Why might he rule against our brother? Well, maybe he got paid under the table by the other party. Or maybe he was prejudiced against the race or the religion.
Now notice that Jesus didn’t say that the man should settle only if he was guilty. So brothers, lets not be naïve, don’t believe everything you read. Just because an article is called a news report doesn’t make it true. And an editorial has someone’s opinion and that someone may be wrong. And TV producers, they have their own agenda, prejudice and viewpoint.”

This is the first time JWs unambiguously include negative court findings into the “anything negative about JWs is linked to apostacy” group. Hence, JWs no longer have the ability to discuss such court cases with their JW friends as this could now bring reprisals. This is BIG.

6

Has anything from a meeting/ Platform caused you to laugh at the bull present?

by Overrated in

jw
friends

i was at a sunday meeting an the speak was going on and on how the org does good for people in public.

example is how at new york the brothers handed out bottles of water.

i know firsthand that they didn't but locked their doors.

StephaneLaliberte

For me, even as a PIMO, that stuff generated anger, sadness, distress in me rather than laughter. It confronts you to the reality that you've been spending a large significant portion of your life in cult. I can't say that ALL the time I spent in that cult was waisted, but a big big part of it was.

24

What Was Your Most Memorable Field Service Experience?

by Sea Breeze in

me: selling the wt and awake for 10 cents at 5 years old.

i don't mean to brag or anything, but i sold 'em like hotcakes.

i musta been a cutie at 5 yo.

StephaneLaliberte

One of the worst I had was me preaching to a homosexual who's answer was: Listen, I'm happy, with my spouse, having a good breakfast, enjoying life, and here you come to my door to tell me that the only way I'll be truely happy is by giving up on the love of my life. Just imagine that: You find the girl of your dream, mary her and have children. Then some kid shows up to your door and tells you that God wants you to leave all that behind for him... How do you expect me to believe that God want's my happiness?

24

What Was Your Most Memorable Field Service Experience?

by Sea Breeze in

me: selling the wt and awake for 10 cents at 5 years old.

i don't mean to brag or anything, but i sold 'em like hotcakes.

i musta been a cutie at 5 yo.

StephaneLaliberte

Another one of my introductions was : "We're teaching the bible" and the guy at the door told me, so why are you holding your magazines in your hand? Its like writing a book report with the "Cole's notes" of a book. Shouldn't you be able to simply use the book itself?

24

What Was Your Most Memorable Field Service Experience?

by Sea Breeze in

me: selling the wt and awake for 10 cents at 5 years old.

i don't mean to brag or anything, but i sold 'em like hotcakes.

i musta been a cutie at 5 yo.

StephaneLaliberte

I used to start all my presentations with:

"Hello sir/ma'am, we're having discussions with our neighbors this morning on a topic that has an impact on everyone and ... " I asked them a question.

then a man at the door said... "no. you're not having discussions, you're preaching. I can tell that no matter the answer I have for you, you already have a come back. If I say no, you'll say this and if I say yes, you'll say that. that aint a conversation, its leading up for a sell.

If you truly want to have conversations, ask open ended questions where you have no idea what the person will say. While they are saying it, don't think of a come back, simply listen to what they have to say. Once they are done saying it, new ideas might emerge. That's what a conversation is! You're just here to sell your ideas.

From that day forward, I never used that expression again when preaching. Later, when I was ready to hear what people really had to say, I used open ended questions, but that was when I was alone... never did it with other people with me.

12

Are JWs still reporting time?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some little child encouragers at work.. .

how do they report time since the halls closed?.

StephaneLaliberte

"and dont forget the 4 hrs per month per parent per child,"

I actually liked that rule as it allowed me not to go door to door for almost a year before fading out for good.

37

What are your personal reasons for hating the Jehovah's Witnesses religion ?

by Rocketman123 in

first thing comes to mind is that this organization through its leaders are not witnessing the true and honest version of the gospel teachings of jesus christ .. they are subjectively teaching/preaching a tainted version made up by the top controlling men of the organization, which i'm sure is connected to the proliferation and distribution of literature which these men publish themselves.

.

when jesus said that no one knows of the time not even he, he didn't say a select few will know .. the other thing that bothers me is this organization promotes human ignorance on many levels, admonishing education or knowledge that mankind needs for its very survival... there are many other religious organizations that do this as well but the jws is just one of these organizations.

StephaneLaliberte

I don’t hate the religion ... I think some of its tenets are dangerous and detrimental to people, that’s all. That doesn’t mean it should be wholly destroyed.
Hate is not the word... Hate is destructive to the hater and I avoid such emotions.
many of the people within it are good people, although duped , as I was once.
I don’t hate the religion either. Many aspects of the religion I don’t like though.

Though the WT paints apostates as "hating" their religion, it is not the reality. We hate some of their actions and teachings, but not everything as a whole.

37

Lloyd Evans removing comments he does not like, just like the cult

by mickbobcat in

i see posts that evans does not seem to like being removed.

i guess he is not a lot different than the control cult he left.

his rebuttal to the zoom assembly he said that dawkins made some silly comments about gender.

StephaneLaliberte

I agree, and said it before, he does control/filters the comments under his videos. He probably deletes more comments than he should and this is why he left this forum as he was not in control of the feeds.

While this indeed warrants criticism, I think comparing him to the Governing Body is too much.

1) He doesn't claim to be inspired or spirit directed. He corrects himself and admits his mistakes from time to time.

2) isn't head of some type of sect or religion where he's trying to control people. He's said often that people are in a better place when they leave the JWs and don't need to watch his videos.

3) Doesn't shy from working publicly with people who don't believe the same thing he does. - He often works with believers while he's openly atheist.

4) Doesn't try to break families apart based on what they believe.

5) Doesn't try to rationalize and or excuse pedophiles.

All this to say: Yes, he is a bit of a controller, doesn't always deliver on his promises, gets annoying with "his patrons", talks way longer than he should on many of his videos, and sometimes finds criticism where none is really warranted. Sure. But to go as far as to compare him to cult leaders who destroy people's lifes on a daily basis? Come on now...

52

If you could pick out critical errors to the JWS religion what would it be ?

by Rocketman123 in

many that have come to this forum have left the jws religion and moved on with their lives but from a outsider's viewpoint what do think makes the jws religion wrong or incorrect as a active christian faith ?.

somethings come to mind such as its long continuous end times/armageddon soon doctrine which has really been a core doctrine for decades going right back to its beginning .. maybe they should have adopted the stance as other christian based faiths and adhered to jesus's own words when he said " no one knows of the time not even he ".

.

StephaneLaliberte

The Watchtower never admits it is wrong or apologizes for the pain it caused with its teaches.

I second truth b known.

The religion and its leaders should display Christian qualities. They are not exempt from this requirement. One of these things is asking forgiveness for your sins, which they don't do. Moreover, if you say you disagree with them on even insignificant matters, they will cast you out labeling you an apostate/anti-Christ. This is the furthest thing from being meek and humble Christian leaders.