Posts by StephaneLaliberte

16

Even if God exists…….

by snare&racket in

i’m an atheist.. let’s assume i am wrong, i am willing to be.. let’s give people a god, let’s even make him the god of the bible…... does he deserve to be worshipped and obeyed?

if so, why does his abhorrent actions not morally make you question allegiance to him?.

does his authority alone allow him to murder and drown and order war, to throw people into a lake of fire?.

Interesting question. When I visited the Louvre Museum in Paris, I was intrigued by how a Moabite tribe won a battle and gave all the glory to their god in a language very similar to that of the bible. Essentially, the god of the winning tribe is the "True God" and whatever that tribe did, it was his will. The bible is just that, the folkloric tales of a tribe that worshiped Yahweh. When they won a battle, it was his will. When they lost, he was punishing them.

That explains why the loving god described by Jesus has nothing to do with the tribal God of the old testament.

And yet, the majority of the religious people want a loving God; someone who cares about them individually and would never be as unjust to order the death of incent children and even people.

As a result, main religions today don’t take a literalist view of the bible, they read its content within the context in which it was written and determines that God is a loving God. On the other hand, JWs and other fundamentalists groups reach similar conclusions about God, not by questioning the veracity of the story, but through complex reasoning that changes the meaning of what happened or what was said.

But in the end, if you read the bible at face value, it talks of a God with dual personalities. One of a lovable God who will forgive king Manasseh who repented late in life, but who killed the child of David and Bathsheba in retaliation for David’s actions.

9

The Impact of Less "Appointed Men" & This Site Thank You

by JWTom in

with the passing minimus, we all may think about what this site has meant to us personally.

i lurked here for quite a few years before becoming active as a poster....still i consider what i have done to be very slight compared with others.

may minimus rest in peace and a big thank you to all that have helped me here over the years.. a new member that is a pimo elder (reservations) posted here about how he could wake people up while remaining a pimo elder.

StephaneLaliberte

Reality is that this is already happening and its already a problem for them. For instance, I would have been very capable of "taking the lead" in the congregation. I left when I was 35, but from 20 to 35, never actually reached out to become a ministerial servant as I wasn't able to teach things I didn't believe in. Other brothers who felt the same confided in me about it. The end result is that there are less brothers to take the lead. One of my uncles is an elder and has been complaining that there are simply not enough of the younger generation to take over. A portion of me finds it sad for him as he dedicated his life to a cause where he's unable to simply pass the torch, validating all of his efforts. But that's basically what is happening.

They are addressing this issue by lessening the teaching burden with videos, merging congregations, removing the book study and removing days from conventions. But the issue will keep growing.

1

Judging Jehovah’s Witnesses

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rdghu50vk .

StephaneLaliberte

I like how the JWs won all those cases for the freedom of religion and conscience, then, turn around and deny it to their own children.

17

What JWs don't know they believe

by StephaneLaliberte in

in a post this morning, i suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the jws don't really know too well.

the idea is that you can say these things, other jws will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

the key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy.

StephaneLaliberte

I am so happy not to be part of Christendom. Could you imagine actually believing Jesus died for my sins so I could make it into the New World? It is so freeing to know that Jesus is only the mediator between Jehovah and the anointed. I know if I am loyal and obedient to the Governing Body I might have a chance of making it through Armageddon.

Perhaps being a bit more subtle? Like, if someone takes the emblems in your hall:

"We need to take special care of the anointed ones, even if we aren't sure that they are in fact anointed. After all, we are all blessed because of them."

If someone says "why", you answer: Well, they have an alliance with God, we don't. We benefit from that alliance. So, we really must take Jesus words to heart when he said to take care of his brothers.

17

What JWs don't know they believe

by StephaneLaliberte in

in a post this morning, i suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the jws don't really know too well.

the idea is that you can say these things, other jws will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

the key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy.

StephaneLaliberte

Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant between Jehovah God and the anointed Christians numbering 144,000. No argument there. The rest are not part of that covenant but we benefit from it. I don't see the problem with that.

What is an alliance if it is not a promise between two parties? The answer you provided is the official teaching and you will note that they don't say it often cause if you stop and think about it, its bunkers.

You are not part of the alliance, but you are expected to devote yourself to Jehovah at least 20 hours a week (personal study, family study, meetings, field service). That's a lot of time to not be part of any official alliance.

Of course, this will not trouble everyone, but if you incorporate it often enough in your talks, prayers, comments, discussions, some will start to stumble on it. I'll admit that this is a challenge as repeating it too often could even sound apostate, but there must be a way to bring it forth every now and then.

One approach that easily works are biblical quizzes in the field ministry, between calls and doors. You know... how old was methuselah? What were the names of the three Hebrews who didn't bow down to the idole? What are the alliances mention in the bible and between who? Trick question: Are we part of any alliance? What are the two pivotal dates on which our chronology relies?

17

What JWs don't know they believe

by StephaneLaliberte in

in a post this morning, i suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the jws don't really know too well.

the idea is that you can say these things, other jws will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

the key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy.

StephaneLaliberte

In a post this morning, I suggested that a way to wake up fellow congregants is to plainly comment or make talks on teachings and rules the JWs don't really know too well. The idea is that you can say these things, other JWs will be bothered by the comments, but will not be able to do anything about it as this is the official teaching or stand on this or that.

The key here is that when troubling rules and teachings are thought in the watchtower, they generally use wording that makes them go down easy. Since we are urged to make comments using our own words, we can re-word these in a way that really expose their true nature; stripping them from the manipulative talk-track.

So, here is a thread to start getting some examples.

Most none JWs will be killed at Armageddon. That means, 99% of the planet. It will be a blood bath.
Parents have the right not to report sexual abuse to the police and Elders may be instructed to respect that decision.
The new testament was written for the Anointed.
When new teachings come in, explain the impact this has. For instance, when blood fractions came in, mention a few life saving treatment that are now acceptable for Christians.

Remember, the key here is delivery... You must say shocking things and sound like you're totally oblivious to the issue. And when teachings/rules change, say you're really excited about a change and happy about the direction Jehovah's chariot is going as we are fixing previous issues.

51

PIMO elder

by Reservations in

jw
friends

i’m reservations, pimo elder.

i’m in no position to leave the organisation, maybe some people will see that as weak or whatever, but we have to all go down our own path in life.. i would like to be able to wake people up in my congregation, how do you think best to do this?

any ideas?.

StephaneLaliberte

Well, here is an evil approach and it really depends on your conscience, but I found that a lot of Elders don't really teach everything the watchtower says (they simply avoid some topics) or don't fully commit to enforcing the WT rules. These elders are generally highly valued by their congregations as most JWs don't really believe everything. You could put off a lot of people by really doing that.

I had some fun with this before I left the "truth" by making comments; some caused the elders to approach me after the meeting and ask me questions about what I said and I would show them the articles where this or that was actually thought and still valid.

For instance, if there is a watchtower talk about pedophiles, you can say something like: "You don't have to go to the police if you don't want to. That's your right. But it is also your right to report it to the police. It is for the parents to choose to make that decision."

Saying something like that will surely shock people in the congregation, but is not debatable once you read the watchtower articles.

Its hard to do this as we've been raised/thought to protect the society, but after you do it once, you'll find strange satisfaction in doing it.

17

How would you respond?

by Iamallcool in

jw
friends

if you tell a jw that he or she is in a cult and they asked you why do you say that?

how would you respond?.

StephaneLaliberte

For every argument you have to show JWs that they are a cult, they will have a prepared answer to deny it.

Perhaps the best way to go would be to ask if there is anything that they don't agree about their religion and if they feel free to express those disagreements with their leaders, friends, family. I'm not talking about going on a campaign here; just to have a free open conversation about their disagreement with their fellow believers. If not, they are not freely exercising their faith.

Funny thing is that some might tell you that they are free to hold such conversations. In which case, ask them if they did and how did it go? Were there follow ups? Did other people unexpectedly got involved? How did it feel? If they haven't had such conversation, ask them to actually do it. After all, if they are free as they believe they are, what could be the harm?

Its that simple.

46

The unfolding crisis in Afghanistan is completely Joe Biden's fault, nobody else's

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, there's been a lot of talk on social media, blaming trump for the current crisis that began at the weekend.. it's a load of bullsh!t from deluded people who are desperate to blame anyone but joe biden, the idiot they voted for or at least wanted to win last november.. there is only one person, just one person, to blame: joe biden.. he has the heavy burden of making tough presidential decisions.. and after this debacle, it's reasonable to ask if he's up to making such decisions..

StephaneLaliberte

I guess it’s part of the JW mindset that if you can come up with an ‘illustration’ for something,

I deliberately did that as we are on an ex-JW forum. I thought it was funny :)

46

The unfolding crisis in Afghanistan is completely Joe Biden's fault, nobody else's

by LoveUniHateExams in

so, there's been a lot of talk on social media, blaming trump for the current crisis that began at the weekend.. it's a load of bullsh!t from deluded people who are desperate to blame anyone but joe biden, the idiot they voted for or at least wanted to win last november.. there is only one person, just one person, to blame: joe biden.. he has the heavy burden of making tough presidential decisions.. and after this debacle, it's reasonable to ask if he's up to making such decisions..

StephaneLaliberte

Not the Taliban’s fault. Not the Afghan government/military. Not previous US administrations going back decades. No, all Joe Biden.

Perhaps you'll understand with an illustration: You bought an old car that needs much repairs. You are aware of it but take it out on the highway anyways and have a major accident. Who's to blame? The previous owners? The Car itself? No! It will be you! You took an action that, given the circumstances, didn't make any sense.

Same goes with the situation in Afghanistan, the US did a poor job at handing over power to that countries government/military. And than, even worst, they didn't even prepare for proper evacuation. But who was it that actually took the decision to leave like this? It was Bidden. Trump made a lot of promisses that he didn't follow and leaving the Afghanistan was just another one. When faced with the facts, what was more important? Uphold his word? Or was it to ensure that he wasn't serving up on a plate thousands of people to radicals? I never liked Trump, but he never messed up as bad as this.