StephaneLaliberte

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Posts by StephaneLaliberte

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  362

  No 'Tight Pants' policy is now official - classed as 'disturbing'

  by wizzstick in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?

  )- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.

  wow.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Simon, you haven't addressed that I believed this was news worthy due to the fact that it trivialized their ministry, which, up until now, I thought was fundamental to being a JW. It is definitely news worthy.
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  362

  No 'Tight Pants' policy is now official - classed as 'disturbing'

  by wizzstick in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?

  )- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.

  wow.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  The reason I am bringing in the pedophiles topic is that I always thought that NOTHING could take away the right to share in the ministry while remaining a JW.

  Up until yesterday, I believed that their ministry was a fundamental right, they acquired that right by fighting for it all over the world. Countless went to jail and many even died for that right!

  You know when you want to prove a point and use extremes to prove it? Well, I would say: Not even pedophiles loose that right! Its fundamental!

  Well, they changed that: It's a fundamental right, but if you look gay... than that's too much. Think about it: You could dress like the model JW for the ministry, fit for a picture in the watchtower. And yet, they could withhold that right and say: "When we saw you at the restaurant, me and my wife, we thought you looked a little gay".
  

  So, with this in mind, my "extreme" example to prove that the ministry is fundamental no longer applies. By outlining the directives in the way that they have done, they are demonstrating that the ministry is not a fundamental right to them.
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  362

  No 'Tight Pants' policy is now official - classed as 'disturbing'

  by wizzstick in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?

  )- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.

  wow.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Where I think that DD has it right is that this letter goes beyond of what people are supposed to look like in the field ministry. It points to what they are in their day to day activities. This is nothing short than high control and abuse.

  Now, a gay who likes to dress like a metro sexual is simply not allowed to fell pretty - EVER. Can you imagine what that is like? To not be allowed to feel good? And can you imagine looking at every little things you do for fear that they will OUT you as a gay?

  That is abuse.

  But again, what infuriates me even more is that they dare to highly control the personal lives of gays, and yet, have no issues letting Mr. Pedophile go door to door. This is absolute none sense.
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  362

  No 'Tight Pants' policy is now official - classed as 'disturbing'

  by wizzstick in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in short:- tight pants is no longer just a am3 hang up (or is that a hang up on the well hung?

  )- brothers who have effeminate body language are flagged up- as are sisters with 'masculine' hair styles or dress- such dress is 'disturbing to the congregation'- the above must heed the (repeated) counsel from the elders...or they get stripped of the right to share on the ministry- however...this will not be revealed (announced) to the congregation.

  wow.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Simon, I understand what your saying and from that angle, you are right, it is defensible. However, I see it as a major problem in that they vigorously protect the right of pedophiles to share in the ministry, and, yet, have no issue taking that right away from someone who "looks" gay.

  They want to start regulating who can share and who cannot? They better start with the pedophiles. Otherwise, this shows me that they are more terrified of what they look like rather then actually protecting kids!
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  20

  No longer qualifies to share in the ministry?

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i heard that co's were provided with a talk outline in which people who dress and act too "gay" could eventually "no longer qualify to share in the ministry", should they not change the way they look!.

  has anyone else ever heard of any other reason for which someone would be disqualified from the ministry?.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  But seriously, do anyone know of any way to be disqualified from the ministry? Even pedophiles have the right to keep preaching...
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  20

  No longer qualifies to share in the ministry?

  by StephaneLaliberte in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i heard that co's were provided with a talk outline in which people who dress and act too "gay" could eventually "no longer qualify to share in the ministry", should they not change the way they look!.

  has anyone else ever heard of any other reason for which someone would be disqualified from the ministry?.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  I heard that CO's were provided with a talk outline in which people who dress and act too "gay" could eventually "no longer qualify to share in the ministry", should they not change the way they look!

  Has anyone else ever heard of any other reason for which someone would be disqualified from the ministry?
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  17

  Just curious

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember that every time when my father and i came home from the meeting, my mother (who stayed at home for my disabled brother) asked us "who was attending and who wasn't attending".. and then, we took some time to drink coffee and went through the list who was there and who wasn't.

  there after there was an opinion made why someone was absent and what this meant in relation with his strength of believe.. just curious, do you recognize this?

  gorby.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Yes. My family used to do that. And than, when I moved out of my parents house and struggled with meeting attendance myself... I stopped doing that.
  
  I would say that doing this also largely depends on the size of your congregation and the percentage of attendance. For instance, if 5 people are missing on a group of 75, you will easily know who they were. From there, it will be easy to gossip about the why... However, if there are 25 people missing on a congregation of 130.... you won't even be sure of who was there, who was late, who was on the phone, who left early, etc... So, gossiping will only be happening for people you actually carefully watched for.
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  14

  Advance Directives and the JW Patient

  by Lee Elder in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  advance directives are complex legal instruments and widely misunderstood by both physicians and their patients.

  with most jehovah's witnesses their is a significant level of misinformation, and in many cases coercion or undue influence exerted on the patient.

  physicians need to be aware of this and always meet privately with the patient to educate them and then ascertain their true wishes.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  When my wife gave birth, the doctor asked if she could give transfusion to the baby despite us being JWs. I answered: We officially don't agree, but we won't fight you if you do. We know you can simply take guardianship of our kid and there is absolutely nothing we can do against that. So, if you need to give blood, we won't resist at all.

  Now, if something were to happen to any body in my family, i'd say: Fill 'em up!
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  37

  What’s the deal with all the Smart-Educated JWs?

  by John Aquila in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we talk a lot about most jws being uneducated, uninformed, and that they lack critical thinking skills, but in my area there is a lot of jws that went to the university, medical school, law school, and came back to the organization.

  in my circuit, that i know of, we had two electrical engineers, one computer engineer with a ph.d. eight teachers with a bachelors degree and three of those with a masters in education.

  we had two medical doctors, one was a pediatrician who closed his business about 3 years ago and went to bethel.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  I’m an educated professional. Yet, before leaving, I had serious issues with the prophecies for at least 15 years. In terms of knowing TTATT, I’d say that happened about 8 years before leaving.

  What made me stay? I thought that the core teachings were about beliefs such as: No hell, no trinity, earthly paradise, knowing about various biblical accounts. Oh how proud I was when I made comments at the hall for which people thought I had studied for hours! My intellect, my ego, was gratified.

  Meanwhile, though I knew that our actions were very important, I had always taken these for granted and never really stopped to truly think about it.

  So, even if I did not agreed with shunning the disfellowshiped, it wasn’t so bad since I wasn’t practicing it. Meanwhile, I kept convincing myself that the most important things were little details in the scriptures, like, knowing the names of the sons of Noah! I went door to door and told myself: How ignorant are these people, knowing an insignificant fraction of what I know on the bible. Not only did I feel so above the worldly people, I thought I was above the JWs themselves as I didn’t believe in the Adam and Eve story or a universal flood!

  Then, I had kids. And now, I was supposed to do family worship and teach everything these man from NY believed. Suddenly, I realized that if I was telling anything concerning the TTATT, I was at risk of being disfellowshiped! Let me explain: At a district convention, I saw a little girl (about 16) telling everyone from the platform that she now shunned her father who was an apostate. Being a closet apostate myself for well over a decade, I realized that my kids could end up right next to her someday, for what? 15 minutes of fame?

  That is when I understood that my priorities were all wrong, that it had nothing to do with the knowledge, but with the actions. Surely no one else loved that girl more than her own father and yet, that is the one she hurt! That has nothing to do with Christian love. Yet, love IS the most important thing about Christianity. It isn’t about knowing how old Abraham was when he had Isaak!

  So, I left. I could not teach that to my kids.

  The sad thing is: I don’t know if I would have come to that understanding if I did not have my kids. It had to personally affect me.
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  65

  Introducing...ME

  by Heartsafire in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  long time lurker here.

  i'm a fifth gen born-in baptized jw.

  to say i've been struggling with doubts is an understatement.

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  StephaneLaliberte

  Heartsafire: Everyone's reasons to wake up and leave are different and thus, you may have to try your husband on different angles and see what makes the most impact.

  1. Prophecies: 607 being wrong
  2. Changing teachings: Looking at what was though in 1919 when Jesus "chose" the Bible Students
  3. Biblical teaching: The pyramid of Gizeh used by Russell
  4. Jehovah not being actually the name of God
  5. Blood issue
  6. Governing body openly admitting they are not inspired and do not perform miracles and yet, request the same authority as the apostles
  7. Shady way of handling the contributions
  8. Sexual Abuse of the children
  9. Being an NGO for 10 years.

  You could be very surprised to hear that I knew all of the above (For over 8 years) and still had no issues with it... that is... until I had kids of my own. It is only at that moment that I realized that I would not be able to teach my kids what I knew for fear of being eventually disfellowshipped for Apostasy. It is only then that I came to understand that the "good fruits" I thought the organization was showing could be questioned.

  I sat down with my wife, and we reviewed all the blessings we had seen in the truth, over the last 10 years, as a couple. We then compared them to all of the bad things we saw as well. Result: we were far from being in a spiritual paradise! The tree was producing a lot of bad fruits.
  

  Though shocked by our finding, we came to realize what we had done over the years: we'd give credit to the WT for all the good things and blame the individuals for the bad things; as instructed by the WT itself. However, this approach is completely illogical otherwise, the exact same logic could be applied to every religions and groups out there.

  Finally we saw it: the fruits of the WT were not good enough to be the "true" religion. The fruits put forth by the watchtower, such as preaching, meeting attendance, constructions, and other measurable actions have nothing to do with the fruits of the spirit mentioned in Paul’s letter to the Galatians. So that night, we decided to fade out.